Hearing 3/27/2013

There was a very strange court hearing in Marion yesterday. Some accounts:

WREG Memphis: New Possible Suspects In 1993 West Memphis Murders
Trench Reynolds: WM3 defense accuse new ‘suspects’ with pot smoking gay tryst scenario

Here are two newspaper article currently behind pay walls. Jody Callahan writes in the Memphis Commercial Appeal:

An attorney representing the mother of one of the boys murdered in the infamous 1993 West Memphis case filed affidavits in court Wednesday naming four men, all of whom have connections to the case, as the killers.

With West Memphis Three member Jason Baldwin a spectator in the Marion, Ark., courtroom, attorney Ken Swindle presented sworn statements that he says implicate Terry Hobbs, David Jacoby, Buddy Lucas and L.G. Hollingsworth in the killings. Although all four have been involved in the case over the past 20 years, none has ever faced any charges.

Swindle is representing Pam Hicks, mother of victim Stevie Branch, in her lawsuit seeking to examine the evidence that belonged to her son. Swindle contends this new evidence serves as proof that authorities are no longer actively investigating the case, since police have not followed it up, and that Hicks — formerly married to Hobbs — should be allowed to see her son’s belongings. A ruling in the case is expected by Monday.

Just a few weeks shy of the 20th anniversary of the murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore, the controversial case still captivates and divides the public.

Baldwin, Damien Echols and Jessie Misskelley Jr. were convicted of the killings in 1994, with Echols sent to Death Row. However, as questions about their guilt continued to mount, aided by the money and star power of numerous celebrities, the three won their release in 2011. While some were angered with that decision, others praised it as delayed justice.

According to a pair of sworn statements submitted by Swindle, four other men brutally murdered the three boys in the infamous case after the children surprised them while they were drinking and smoking pot.

“He murdered those boys,” Swindle said, indicating Jacoby, who was standing in the back of the courtroom Wednesday after he was subpoenaed to appear.

Jacoby, who earlier came under suspicion after a hair consistent with his DNA was found near the murder scene, repeatedly denied any involvement.

“They’re terribly wrong,” Jacoby said. “All I did was walk out there in the woods with other people, looking for those kids. They said they found my DNA, my hair near the scene. I can see that. I was out there looking for the kids.”

Mark Byers, stepfather of victim Chistopher Byers, was also in the courtroom Wednesday. As he has in the past, the volatile Byers threatened violence against those he believes killed his stepson. His target Wednesday was Jacoby.

“There was a guilty party in this room today who killed my son. It’s all I can do not to grab ahold of him,” Byers said. “If it had been 1993, I probably would have done it.”

As the media pursued Jacoby out of the courthouse, Byers followed. Jacoby told Byers he was “terribly wrong” in his accusations, to which Byers responded, “Liar. You’re a liar.”

Bennie Guy and Billy Stewart both gave sworn affidavits to Swindle, saying that Buddy Lucas admitted his involvement to them.

According to Guy, Lucas confessed to him in March 1994, then again a few months later.

“Well, me and L.G. Hollingsworth and them two, we done it. We killed them little boys,” Lucas said, according to Guy.

In July 1995, Guy added that he was arrested and found himself sharing a cell with Hollingsworth, who died in a car accident in 2001.

According to Guy, he convinced Hollingsworth to admit his guilt and share details. Guy said that Hollingsworth told him that he and Lucas had been walking in Lakeshore Trailer Park when Hobbs and Jacoby drove up, asking where to buy marijuana.

Lucas and Hollingsworth directed them to Stewart, then went along for the ride. At that point, Stewart tells a similar story, but says that when they drove up to buy weed, he saw Hobbs kiss Jacoby. Stewart added that his son also saw them kissing on a later occasion. He said that a few days after the murders, he also delivered pot, cocaine and crystal meth to Hobbs at a Memphis gay bar called J-Wags.

In April 1995, Stewart said that Guy told him of Lucas’s confession, so he asked Lucas about it. Lucas confessed again, he said, giving details.

According to the affidavits, Lucas said that the quartet drank whiskey, smoked pot and drove around, eventually ending up in the wooded area where the murders took place. Lucas told Stewart that Hobbs and Jacoby made the two teenagers wrestle after they got to the woods.

At that point, both Guy and Stewart say that the boys surprised them by riding up on their bikes. Hobbs ordered them to chase down the boys. Lucas then told Stewart that he and Hollingsworth were forced to hold the boys while Jacoby and Hobbs beat them. They then stripped the bodies, dumped them in the water and hid the bicycles. The bodies were found the next day.

Lucas couldn’t be reached for comment Wednesday.

And Gary Meece writes in the West Memphis Evening Times:

The “West Memphis 3” case took yet another strange twist in its long, convoluted history Wednesday as a lawyer for a slain child’s mother, Pam Hicks, alleged that her ex-husband, his guitar-playing buddy and two teens killed three Cub Scouts on May 5, 1993.

The allegations came in two affidavits delivered to Judge Victor Hill at the end of a hearing on access to evidence in the case, with lawyer Ken Swindle urging that the information in the 80-page packet be considered before making a ruling in the case.

The allegations against Hobbs, David Jacoby, L.G. Hollingsworth and Buddy Lucas were based on sworn statements given by Bennie Guy and Billy Stewart to Swindle, based on alleged admissions from Buddy Lucas.

Guy said Lucas confessed to him on two occasions in 1994.

While sharing a jail cell with Hollingsworth in 1995, Guy claims he talked Hollingsworth into giving details on the killings. Lucas also supposedly confessed again to Stewart in 1995.

The new suggested narrative, with many parallels to the original case, goes like this: All four met up during a drug buy in Lakeshore Trailer Park. The four drove around getting high until they ended up at Robin Hood Hills, where the three boys surprised them. After the teens captured the boys,, Hobbs lost his temper when a boy kicked him, prompting the others to begin beating the boys. Hobbs used a pocket knife to mutilate two of the boys, the affidavits allege. The four stripped the bodies and dumped them in the water and hid the bicycles, the papers allege.

Hobbs never has been a suspect in the case and repeatedly has denied any involvement in the killings.

Jacoby, who was in the courtroom Wednesday answering a subpoena, denied any involvement in the killings when asked by reporters while the adoptive father of one of the boys, John Mark Byers, just a few steps away, made barely veiled threats against him, in the florid style prominently featured in “Paradise Lost” documentaries about the case.

There has been a long history of claims of alternative suspects in the case, most notably John Mark Byers.

Terry Hobbs is the stepfather of victim Stevie Branch. Hobbs has became a favorite target of so-called “supporters” of the West Memphis 3, based on some inconsistent statements about his whereabouts on the evening of the killings and a strand of hair found in one of the boy’s shoelaces that could possibly be his, based on DNA.

Jacoby was a friend of Hobbs. The two have said they played guitars together early in the evening on May 5, 1993, and later searched for the missing boy.

Hollingsworth, who died in 2001 in an auto accident, told investigators in the original case that Echols made incriminating statements to him shortly after the murder. Hollingsworth had complex ties to the case, having spent part of the day around Domini Teer, Damien Echols’ then 15-year-old pregnant girlfriend; having been in an auto accident that day in a car with his aunt, Narlene Hollingsworth, a major witness in the case, and having been at the laundromat where Narlene Hollingsworth was headed when she and her family saw what they testified were Echols and Teer walking in muddy clothes near the murder scene on the evening the boys were killed. L.G. Hollingsworth, who gave confusing and contradictory statements to investigators, also told police that Echols had made incriminating statements to him shortly after the murders.

Lucas also had ties to the case, having told original investigators that Jessie Miskelley, a Highland Park neighbor whose confessions were pivotal in the original case, cried while giving him the shoes Miskelley wore the evening of the murders, telling Lucas that he and Echols and Baldwin killed the boys. Lucas told investigators in initial questioning almost 20 years ago that he was at a family barbecue at Highland Trailer Park on the evening of the murders. Lucas later recanted his story about Miskelley’s admission to him, failed a lie detector test about why he changed the story and then told investigators he lied about the changes in his story because he was scared.

Earlier in the day Wednesday, Judge Hill appeared ready to order that the personal effects of the 8-year-old victims be handed back to the families.

“This is their property,” he said. “The state cannot take it from them.”

Both sides, in a hearing that mostly involved cleaning up lingering issues in an October ruling on access to evidence, attempted to dial back his enthusiasm, with Swindle, representing Pam Hicks, formerly Pam Hobbs, telling the court that his clients simply wanted to see the physical evidence.

“We don’t want it back; we just want to see what’s there,” said Swindle.

West Memphis City Attorney David Peeples noted that state law demands that the items be retained and also continued to argue that the West Memphis Police Department, which has made overtures to Hicks about allowing her and some other family members to see some of the personal effects, is under no obligation under the State Freedom of Information Act to allow review of any physical evidence. Peeples noted that careful preservation of the items could prove crucial if further breakthroughs in forensics yield new evidence.

“We owe it to the victims, to the families, to the men who have been convicted in this case that the evidence be preserved,” said Peeples.

The hearing in the courthouse in Marion involved somewhat fine points of law, with Judge Hill promising a ruling on Monday on motions sought by Hicks’ attorney. Still at issue is whether the FOI extends to the review of physical evidence and whether Prosecuting Attorney Scott Ellington has an ongoing investigation into the murders, despite the convictions and guilty pleas of the so-called “West Memphis 3.”

Swindle said the affidavits had bearing on whether Ellington is conducting an ongoing investigation into the murders of Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers. .

Jason Baldwin, Damien Echols and Jessie Miskelley, all area teenagers at that time, were convicted of the murders in 1994.

The three dead boys were found May 6, 1993, in a muddy ditch in a formerly wooded area near the service road in West Memphis; Miskelley’s multiple confessions described how the boys were beaten, tied up and drowned; Branch and Byers were mutilated and raped, according to Miskelley’s statements, which he has since disclaimed. The three were released in August 2011 under a plea deal in which they pleaded guilty but were allowed to continue to assert their innocence.

Baldwin was in court Wednesday, although he admitted to the swarm of TV reporters afterward that he had not paid much attention to the proceedings. Baldwin was not a party in the motions.

Baldwin told the reporters he was going to school and trying to get his life back together and he embraced his mother, Gail, for the cameras.

Also on hand for the camera was John Mark Byers, who has attempted to claim standing in the motion to see the evidence.

Byers held up a copy of the papers that Swindle had given Judge Hill and claimed that the document would exonerate the so-called “West Memphis 3.”

Danny Owens, an assistant to Swindle, also drew the attention of the cameras as he claimed Ellington had not actively investigated evidence delivered to his offices on Feb. 22, 2012.

The court actions Wednesday stemmed from Judge Hill’s ruling in October stating that Hicks, who was not present for the hearing Wednesday, would not be allowed to see evidence in the case.

Much of the argument Wednesday revolved around once again whether Ellington had an ongoing investigation into the killings. If the case is not ongoing, then the materials are subject to be opened under Freedom of Information rules.

The position of the prosecutor’s office, as set forth once again on Wednesday, is that the case of the “West Memphis 3” is closed, and hence the records are open, which is not the case with the ongoing investigation.

If these newspapers ask me to take down their reposted article, I will do so.

Some background on Buddy Lucas: Jessie Misskelley’s confession to Buddy Lucas. And I recently added a page about L.G. Hollingsworth to the case history section.

Both new accusers, Bennie Guy and Billy Stewart, are serving long prison sentences. That doesn’t prove they’re lying. There are plenty of more obvious reasons to believe they’re lying.

Callahan has added the Bennie Guy and Billy Stewart affidavits to its Pam Hicks and John Mark Byers v. WMPD et al page. (Thanks, Frank.)

378 thoughts on “Hearing 3/27/2013”

  1. The case is solved! It looks like team psycho was wrong about the murder site being a dump site and the snapping turtles…but who cares! Team psycho has a pretty bad track record of being wrong ex: Byers. A card carrying member of team psycho now!

    It’s called throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.

    And one thing is certain…this is shit.

    1. I agree . I am ready to go back to the Byers theory . Byers theory was almost believeable . I said almost, but it is better then any of these other theories . The more the WM3 throw out there the more guilty they look. Looks like the killer turtles are off the hook now and now we can trust two convicted rapist at the same prison. Claiming a dead person LG confessed to one back in 1994 and again in 1995 . Then Buddy Lucas confessed to the other imate at Cummins Unit . I say we pull Timothy Cotton back in since LG is dead .
      http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/t_cotten_statement.html

    1. Tangier ,
      Which one ?
      Here is the list of all the high paid expert testimony and theories.
      1) First the stab wounds were by some angry parent of the child that was mutilated. That is when they were trying to hang Byers. Byers kill these children and they accused him of removing his teeth so no one would know about the bite marks that he left on his child was his.Byers was so scared of them he hid his dentures while going on a talk show . Also his wife was in the on the attacks and she did the bite marks. Then Mr. Byers killed his wife because she knew too much about the killings.
      2) There was dog hair they found and it was some kind of dog or wolf that attacked the dead bodies. They also had the manhole theory.
      3) Mr. Hobbs and David Jacoby dumped the bodies after Terry Hobbs singly handed killed these children in his house and David helps hide the bodies. Only problem with that theory no one seen the truck nearby. Also David and Terry came back with the same clothes and no mud on them. It is the killer turtles that attacked the children. Which takes pieces off of one and just bites the other two children
      4) This dumb one is by Pam Hicks and Byers finding these two convicts saying that they got a confession from LJ that is now dead (how convenient for them)and then of course they get Buddy Lucas to confess to the convicted child rapists. Mr. Hobbs and David Jacoby and Buddy Lucas and L.G. Hollingsworth, Jr. we’re sitting and smoking pot and drinking. (Pam said that David and Terry were gay and kissing hahaha sorry that was just nuts). Then because the children were spying on them. Chief Terry Hobbs gives the order for them to get the children. The two boys hold the children for Mr. Hobbs and David to beat them and then Terry cuts them up with a pocket knife. Now we are back to the knife. What happen to those killer turtles? Now it just so happens that David was at home with his wife and kids and only went out to help Terry look around 6:30 or something like that . Then David returns to his home with no mud or blood and Terry is with him with no mud or blood and the same clothes. Let’s just forget that Damien was seen walking on the road right next to the crime scene with who they think is Domini with muddy clothes around 9:00PM to 10:00 PM. Which give Echols ample amount of time to go home get that phone call from Bearden because I think it was more like 9:00 PM because both the husband and the children said it was 9:00PM .Which I think is was Jason not Domini walking down the road.

      NOW THIS IS THE LIST OF ALL THE THEORIES THAT THEY COME UP WITH AFTER MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE SPENT. IF THEY WOULD HAVE JUST SPENT ONE MILLION INVESTAGETING THE WM3 THEY CAN CLOSE THE CASE AND SEE THE WM3 ARE GUILTY AS CHARGE AND FOUND GUILTY BY A JURY OF 24 IN TOTAL AND THEN ALL 3 PLEAD GUILTY. THE DEFENCE LAWYERS AND THE WM3 AND THEIR FILM LOOK DESPERATE AND DUMB.

      Waiting for the next theory of it was Domini help killed those children with help from Murray. Come on the WM3 give it a try and see if that one fits.

      1. Exactly Donna. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t such a serious matter.

        The worst thing about this latest team psycho theory in my opinion is that LJ Hollingsworth was a friend of Damien! Now they are claiming LJ did it with a Terry?!? Oh yeah, and Terry was a homosexual…and oh yeah the motive was (drumroll please) that the kids walked in on them smoking pot and wrestling! …How about that for a motive! You see multiple adults murdering multiple children for “surprising” them sooo often in this country. A completely legitimate motive.

        It is just PATHETIC, but oh so typical.

        1. Jack203,
          Oh yeah then LG was telling his aunt not to say anything about seeing Echols and Domini on the road ? Wouldn’t he be urging his aunt on to Echols to tell the police . This is sad the damage is done already . The papers never prints when it is found to be lies. Now this is a OJ trial for sure . Smooth how the WM3, don’t want to co-sign on the deal so it wont look like they are in on it .

        2. But you think satanic ritualistic murder by three teenagers is a legitimate motive?

          People continue to harp on the inconsistencies in alibis, but no one here seems to care about the inconsistencies in Jessie’s statement. The reality is that there is no evidence linking the wm3 to the crime scene (if where they were found is even where the crimes were committed), so the police had to rely on a recanted confession offered by a borderline retarded teenager after several hours of interrogation. Is there reason to be suspicious of the wm3? Certainly. There’s also reason to be suspicious of Terry Hobbes, who also had no reliable alibi. Call me crazy, but I don’t believe in incarcerating or executing individuals for mere suspicions.

          Convictions of the wm3 were achieved largely by playing off Bible belt fears of satanism – something the prosecution knew would resonate with the jury. The prosecution knew they didnt have much, as they conceded to the victims’ families in the first Paradise Lost film, so they pushed that particular agenda. It’s much easier to convict someone after painting them as a satanic monster.

          This case is very similar to the Central Park 5 case in which the state relied heavily on coached confessions, and ignored the utter lack of DNA evidence. Much like in that case, police squandered the ability to interrogate other potential suspects due to lazy investigating (e.g. Bojangles guy).

          Also, an Alford plea is not the same as a standard guilty plea. Alford plea defendants maintain their innocence. Do you really think the state would have allowed to enter those pleas if they actually had strong enough evidence to convict them again?

          1. Agree. I don’t know who killed those boys, but the drifter from the restaurant was my most likely choice. It is definitely not the wm3, they were railroaded and I am so relieved they are free at last, enough of their lives were stolen from them.

      2. I thought they met up at 9:00 am, Donna. Oh, yeah, 7 or 8 PM, I forgot. Tied em up with rope or was it a piece of visqueen? And I guess Damien was wearing a hairnet. And Jason, he was, what, screwing em’? You sound like an intelligent person, yet you believe this nonsense???

        I’m not buying this theory totally, but it is interesting and way more believable than the phony satanic cult murders by the 3 teenagers who left no evidence whatsoever.
        Hobbs is involved, I have no doubt. We will have to see how it plays out.

        1. Tangier ,
          So Buddy and LG were wearing hairnets too ? See I think the police should have called in the CSI . They can only find sand or something that can solve why no DNA . Come on the hair which might be Terry Hobbs , if it is his most likely ( think 99%) secondary transfer . This crime had no DNA because the children were submerge in water and so were the clothes . CSI was busy filming that day to help with the case .

        2. Tangeler u make me sick and the end of the day these babies have been murdered and u carry on to make jokes

        1. Completely agree… I firmly believe that Hobbs performed the killing, and have since I became aware of this case after watching the first “Paradise Lost”. It just seems rather typical of our justice system – particularly in that part of the country – where someone that is seen as “weird”, “unusual”, or simply different from the norm is cast as the perpetrator. There is a definite reason why the WM3 have a collection of stars and omnipotent lawyers that have interceded on their behalf.

    2. Tangier,

      One of the pillars of the conviction of the WM3 (from what I have read), was that neither of the 3 had alibis. How was this rebutted by the 3 in the wake of all this?

      1. According to a doc I saw, I believe 2 of them were seem by several witnesses at some sort of wrestling event which included some kind of signature. The jury didn’t seem to buy it.

    3. Byers and Hobbs were homosexuals, on the day of the murders the three boys saw them with two other younger males having sex.

  2. “So we all agree the spot where the bodies wear found was the dump site, correct? You don’t dispute that, right?” – Tangier

    ‘Scuse me, I’ve got a bandwagon to catch.

      1. Tangier ,
        Did you say reality check ? I really mean it, because the story they are trying to feed everyone in the 40 page documents doesn’t make sense . Ok figure this : Terry is a big time drug addict and he buys once a week from this drug dealer but he needs LG and Buddy to help them find drugs ? What does LG and Buddy do take Terry and David to Terry’s drug dealer ? Instead of getting the drugs and going home to party . They tell Buddy and LG, who are strangers to them till that day. Hey why don’t we hang out and party and we will share our pot and even buy you beers . This is so full of bull .

      1. Tangier,
        Sad that anyone would go that far for revenge . A bitter bitter woman and a Byers just someone that wants to be in the papers .

  3. Matt, thats all I could think when I was reading this, just how sad the entire situation has become, those poor little boys just continue to have their memories stomped on. May all three rest in peace.

  4. I absolutely detest Byers. Here’s a guy who was for years blamed for murdering 3 children by a bunch of ignorant cunts. Now he is the darling of the supporter movement and their biggest voice. He is there to make money instead of looking for justice for 3 murdered boys. It’s that simple.

    1. As much as I dislike his antics, I refuse to judge John Mark Byers. I do not know what it is like to have a child (or step-child) brutally murdered.

    2. Agree but don’t forget to add Pam to that mix . She has a beautiful daughter and grandchildren that she has dug through the mud with all of this . Money Greed and Attention that is all this is about . Neither Pam or Byers can let go of the spotlight . Byers needs a new act though, it just looks pathetic . I thought it was because he was drunk all that time . I guess it is just because he is a moron .

  5. I wonder how much money they are receiving for their ”support” of the WM3? I bet if I rolled into West Memphis with cash to spend I could get 50 percent of the people involved with the case to say Captain Kangaroo and Mr. Rogers murdered those boys with witnesses to boot. Byers would be just sad if he were not pointing the finger at others. Byers calling out others on this bs evidence is almost as disgusting as the chupacabras fawning over Echols twitter wisdom. Gotta give Todd Moore credit for standing his ground throughout all this…heroic comes to mind.

      1. Tangier, please tell me that you, and John Nickerson, and Scott Daley are all one in the same. See, I’d rather believe there weren’t actually three hopeless Hobbs-Dun-It, Dammit! guys running around…

          1. And for a moment he thought i was William Ramsey…how funny.

            And for a moment i was flattered because of the regards i have for Mr. Ramsey.
            And i have to admit ..i even got the image of me and Tangier making out in the woods in my head.

            Took some time but i’m all right now though.

          2. None of the above. Oh geez, ya’all don’t realize about 99% of people familiar with this case agree with me?
            I do appreciate the compliment of mistaking me for DPD, however. Brilliant guy.

          3. Tangier ,
            You mean your online group ? Most of America doesn’t even know this case . The ones that do know the case and think they are guilty I would say 99% are not online . I love 99% .

          1. Tangier ,
            Wow you are 99%. You are the voice for the people. I can see your hand raised and screaming power for the people. Sorry but on the boards I hear even the supporters are saying this is just sick. So I am thinking you need a calculator. If the WM3 were not involved in this then why would Jason be in court ? That is what I keep asking him. I think they are saying they weren’t involved because this would be what their 5th high price paid theory.

  6. When I first read this, I thought “they gotta be kidding.”

    Lucas who is described as “mentally slow” allegedly confesses to two convicted rapists that he did the crime. And the supporters are dancing in the streets? What about never believing a mentally person’s confession? You droned on about that for 2 decades. But now that Lucas may have confessed, it’s a rock solid confession. Ok, I get it.

    And the motive again? Oh yeah, Hobbs and Jacoby were making out when the kids came riding their bikes through the woods. Solution? triple homicide! Ok, got it.

    1. Do you comprehend the distinction between using someone’s dubious statement as

      1) conclusive proof of guilt in a murder case
      2) probable cause to ask for further investigation in such a case?

      No, I guess you do not.

      1. Didacticus ,
        Oh yes this would make them think they have to look into more with evidence. Just like with Cotton in 1993 they didn’t even take it as evidence against the WM3 back in 1993.

    2. BradO ,
      Buddy Lucas never confessed . I convicted rapist said he confessed . Jessie on the other hand did confess to the police .

      1. Donna,
        I think its time for you to step down from that donkey of yours. The WM3 were convicted only because the police were to lazy to even try to come up with any motif (satanic rituals possibly but every witness that has said they saw the wm3 do a ritual has ended up being false). I understand why they didn’t want to find someone else because the families and the media wanted a killer. Jessies confession is false in many ways. For one they shouldn’t have even questioned him considering the fact that they never were give permission by his dad. Secondly his story like all the other stories in this case have changed multiple times, Jessise changed his story mutltiple times because of the fact that the police were there coaching him step by step on with what to say. (if you don’t believe me google it) You Donna need to look at both sides of the story which could help you and your arguments. I see both sides and I believe that the WM3 were convicted wrongly. But the only people who know who killed the boys is 1) God 2) the ones who killed the boys and 3) Stevie, Chris, and James, may the three of them rest in peace and soon we shall find the killer(s)

        1. B. I have been reading all these comments here. Yours is by far the only one that i read and agree with all the way. i think that the families of these 3 little angels are still fighting to bring the real murder to justice. i think the reason why they insist on this so much is because after all of this story that still developes even to this day, they dont want anybody to forget about what happened on may 5 1993 because they are still hopeful the real killer will be brought to justice and pay for this horrific crime. if they stop making interviews people will just simply forget about it and stop helping to help catch the killer. i think its real easy to come here and write crap about a grieving mother that lost her child in the worst situation anyone could possibly get in and judge her the way a lot of people have done as far as read here. everybody thinks and grieves in their own way. i personally admire her strengh because i dont think i could survive something like this. finally, my heart truly goes to the families of these 3 little angels.

          1. I agree with B after all I have read here all is speculation they had to find a killer in a hurry and didn’t do a very thorough investigation to bad we didn’t have the technology then as we do now! But God does know who and why this tragedy occurred and those that are guilty will definitely get there just reward on Judgement Day and see the little angels they killed so merciless in Heaven while they burn in eternal fire and damnation. Justice is always served here on earth or before the throne of GOD!

  7. I have the sense the noose is tightening. On Hobbs. Despite the fact that this horrible crime was so badly mismanaged, the real killer or killers may finally be brought to justice. That’s what’s important, right, justice?

    I don’t have a dog in this hunt. I’m convinced the 3 convicted and now released didn’t commit the crime. Someone else, a family member, is responsible. Hobbs’s account of his actions on the night of the murder doesn’t add up. What would be the first thing you would do if your child was missing…would you call your wife? Of course you would.

    1. There are a couple of perfectly sound reasons why someone might not immediately alert their spouse that a child has gone missing. I’m sure you can think of them, if you were so inclined. (In fact I’d argue it more likely one would *not* immediately alert a spouse about such a situation.)

      1. Hobbs did not call his wife because at that time he was mudering the children. Makes perfect sense, especially since we know Damien, Jason and Jessie didn’t do it and Hobbs is a familymember.

        Good thinking

        1. Frank, to clarify: He was having a gay experience with Jacoby first…Naturally, that led to murder. /s

          The noose is indeed tightening – on all rational thought by supporters.

      2. What’s Jacoby’s excuse then?? The4se two were supposedly searching early on, driving right past Catfish Island. There were no ‘searches’ early on, Jacoby admits it on film, he covered for his friend because he didn’t want to see him ‘railroaded’ like the three, although there was nothing back in 07 to say the three were ‘railroaded’.

  8. The noose is not getting tighter around Terry Hobbs. What the chupacabras and other assorted murder groupies don’t seem to understand is that no prosecutor is going to bring charges and totally humiliate himself in the eyes of his peers in the judiciary on the word of two multiple felons. Who by the way are basing their lies on the alleged confession of a dead man.It just does not work that way. Sorry blood suckers.

    1. There have been NUMEROUS cases where the PRIMARY evidence was the testimony of a jail house snitch, often just one. And typically the snitch got something in exchange from the state for the testimony.

      Anyone who has ANY clue about the justice system in the U.S. would know that such conduct by prosecutors has led to numerous wrongful convictions and is one of the most troubling aspects of the system. In other word your comment indicates you are utterly clueless about prosecutions in the U.S.

      And no, Hobbs should not be prosecuted primarily on the evidence supplied by these two felons. Yet had the state not already gone after the WM3 teens, prosecutors likely would have been quite happy to build a case based on such evidence.

      1. Didacticus ,
        Sure there is ones that come back after 20 years and the party they said told them is dead . Sorry but if that was the case they would have taken Cotton statements more serious . Wonder why they didn’t look into that one ? All they did is ask LG is this true and he said no and end of story .

      2. I guess I should have said these two multiple felons. And no, they are not going to humiliate themselves from the perspective of this case. Jail house snitches are a problem but if it is a wrongful conviction based on a snitch alone it is often overturned. Convictions may result with other evidence indicating guilt, I will grant you that but that is not going to happen in this case as the guilty party was already convicted. PS…Our justice system may not be perfect but I will take it over the vast majority of other industrialized nations.

  9. Interesting word, chupacabra; thanks for sharing.
    And the evidence these are all lies?
    If a judge orders a prosecutor to reopen the case, my guess is he will do so.
    By the way, DP, you’re a believer in the cult murder scenario, right? Doesn’t that make you a blood sucking, murder groupie?

  10. No, I do not believe in the cult murder scenario but rather a vicious thrill kill instigated by a psychopath with two idiot followers. Of course, Echols prior beliefs did nothing to hinder him from morally engaging in the sexual torture and murder of the three poor boys that encountered him, Baldwin and Miskelly that day. And a judge is not going to order him to reopen the case. How ludicrous. And you know very well Echols refers to his followers as Chupacabras. Don’t play daft ….well, then again….

  11. Well, we agree on the psychopath and two idiot followers part. Nah, I change my mind; I think Hobbs acted alone. You look at him and don’t think he’s capable of murder? Wow.
    I guess you’ll get to your DNA evidence later…
    You don’t think the case will ever be reopened.? Chutzpah.

    1. So. you can just look at someone and tell whether they’re capable of murder and therefore must have commited said murder? Wow, that’ pretty impressive Detective Tangier.
      Let me try; I am 99% percent certain that you, Tangier, are guilty of having taken a shit in the bath.

      1. Marrakesh, I’d recommend you stop trying to imagine me in the bathtub. Creeps me out. Try to spend your Easter imagining bunnies instead.

          1. I am only here for the sideshows that are your posts.
            Chutzpah!

            Seriously, how old are you though?

    2. “You look at him (Hobbs) and don’t think he’s capable of murder?”

      As a proud blue stater, I look at Hobbs and see a run of the mill redneck good ol boy.

      It takes a special kind of psychopath to kill three 8 year olds, and then go on living like nothing happened. His profile doesn’t fit.

      The crime fits a teenage thrill kill to a tee. There have been hundreds of documented cases of teenage kill thrills as they are not rare. The attempted and aborted sexual assault described by Jesse does raise some BS alarms, but, unfortunately, the sexual injuries fit his confession. When dealing with a complete sociopath (which Echols was diagnosed, and there was no denying he was at the time) , it sadly isn’t far fetched.

      I do understand and concede with a few key points of evidence being ruled inadmissible in court (which certainly would have happened). The WM3 had a decent chance at reason doubt. And this coming from someone who thinks they are almost certainly guilty. However, I can understand why they took the Alford Plea even though they had a chance at reasonable doubt…that being there was also a very good chance they would be found guilty by a jury of their peers….again.

      Now as you are someone certain of their innocence, why do you YOU think they took the Alford plea?

      1. While I appreciate your posts Jack203, including this one, I beg to offer a correction re: Echols’ purported sociopathy.

        To my knowledge Echols was never officially diagnosed as sociopathic –with the exception of his own self-diagnosis. When applying for (and receiving) mental health benefits he cited having been treated for “Sociopathic” condition, as well as answering on a form: “I am a sociopath.” While not exactly flattering to his state of mind in 1993, when those forms were filled out, his comments can’t be said to comprise a professional diagnosis of sociopathy.

        1. A sociopath could be described as someone that enters a neighbors house and grabs her naked breast in the shower. Hobbs did that.

      2. Baldwin didn’t want the Alford plea. I’m interested that you think he was guily of a “thrill kill”. Not a shred of evidence except some recanted testimony. Cnn you imagine a jury convicting him again in a separate trial? Might as well put any of us on trial, too. And don’t get me started about the lake knife.
        So you’ve spent 18 years in prison for a crime you didn’t commit – throw in a hostile judge and inept prosecutor…no sane person would turn the offer down.
        Where’s the DNA left by the 3 in your thrill kill? Even the most carefully planned crime has evidence left at the scene.

        1. Tangier ,
          But he forced himself to take the plea . Yeah I am buying that one his lawyer most likely told him to take the deal.

      3. I am not certain of their innocence (or yours, for that matter), but the answer is easy.

        It could take two to three years before the WM3 would be acquitted. First prosecutors would stretch the appeal process as far as possible. Then the trial would take long time to set up again, especially after all those years. And prosecution might appeal trial verdict too. Again, easily 2-3 years in total.

        Second, Misskelley would still have a slight chance of conviction, given his various statements could be still used against him and given that juries still place provably excessive confidence into supposed confessions.

        Again, prosecutors blackmailed Baldwin by refusing to allow only the other two the plea deal. Short of new evidence, no competent defense attorney could fail to have Baldwin acquitted in a fair trial.

        The REAL primary reason Baldwin was convicted originally was gross jury misconduct who presumed him guilty on the bases of the Misskelley trial (plus media “trial”) without ever allowing him to address these issues at all.

      4. I was thinking the same thing in regard to the Alford plea. If I were innocent, there is no chance in hell they could make me plead guilty in any way, shape, or form. I definitely would have gone for a new trial.
        Also, if people understand how human development works, they would know that the frontal cortex of the brain is not fully developed until sometime in your early twenties. (the part of the brain which controls emotion and is your conscience) Should someone, oh I don’t know, be diagnosed as a sociopath…it’s not far fetched to imagine them committing a violent and heinous crime.
        With that being said, there are life lessons I have acquired over time. One very important lesson is that ANYONE is capable of doing anything at any time. Mr. Hobbs may be a “redneck…good ‘ol boy” but he could have done this. That man has quite a temper, and the mother is just the type to look the other way. Sorry, but I had to state the obvious…someone is doing meth in Arkansas. I’ve seen it time and time again whenever the stepfather gets pissed at the Mom for something he will take it out on what means the most to her…her son. There is a neighbor, 3 houses down that witnessed the boys being with Terry Hobbs at 6:30 pm that evening…but wasn’t Terry looking for Stevie @ 5pm?????
        But what this all comes down to is that I haven’t personally seen any evidence nor have I interviewed witnesses. All I have seen are several documentaries which are clearly not objective since they are aimed at freeing the WM3. We are all swimming in pure speculation. What is 100% factual is that 3 innocent young boys were murdered not far from their homes where they probably played so often. I pray that their souls are free and they are somewhere far better than the world I live in.
        And for the single mothers out there which I have much respect for…I leave you with this. It takes one hell of a rare man these days to step up and be a father just to his own flesh and blood. It is even rarer to find a man who is willing to be a father to a child who is not his blood. Quit worrying about being lonely, get a good career going and be with your kids…they grow up so fast. Take your time and really get to know a guy for a while before you even introduce him to your children and question why is this man willing to be a stepfather to my child? And dear God woman, listen to your children, they are honest and the voice of reason…if they say something is off…chances are he’s a fuck up!

  12. Hi, I’m back. Can’t wait for someone to steal my name and post something stupid.

    Anywho…couple quick points.

    One, I kinda take umbrage when folks who believe the WM3 are guilty accuse folks who think the WM3 are innocent as being “murder groupies,” or any such nonsense. Let’s be clear: no matter what the truth is here, no matter what the facts of this case may actually be when all is said and done, everyone who has cared enough about this story to follow it does so OUT OF A CLEAR AND EXPRESS INTEREST IN JUSTICE. Justice for the victims, justice for the families, and justice (as well as vindication) for anyone who has been accused of something they didn’t do. If you think the WM3 are innocent, you probably want to see them vindicated. If you believe Hobbs is innocent, you probably want to see him vindicated. If you think the WM3 are guilty, you’re probably glad they spent 20 years in prison, and you probably hope Karma or God or their own nature will conspire against them to ensure they experience further punishment. If you think Terry Hobbs is guilty, you’re probably pissed he’s spent the last 20 years a free man, and you probably hope Karma or God or his own nature will conspire against him to ensure he is finally punished. What I’m saying here is pretty basic, it’s Kindergarten stuff, okay? I’m not trying to be profound. I’ve spent a lot of time on WM3 support boards, and while everyone has choice words about Hobbs, or Fogelman, or Burnett, they don’t harp on WM3-nons as being bloodthirsty murder groupies just because they believe Hobbs is innocent. Just because I disagree with the assertion that the WM3 are guilty and this case is closed, don’t believe for one second that I don’t want justice done for those boys. We all talk a big game about how sure we are of our respective opinions on this case, but let’s be clear here: there’s one reason and one reason alone we’re still talking about it 20 years later (well, two reasons, one reason is most certainly Paradise Lost, which rescued the case from the obscurity it would have inevitably been relegated to were it not presented in the medium of film, broadcast for the world to see)…but the OTHER reason we’re still talking about this case 20 years later is simple: it is NOT black and white. It is NOT open and shut. Even Poirot would have needed to think this all through VERY carefully…

    1. That’s true, anyone following true crime stories are the same type of people. Your conclusions don’t matter – the very fact supporters and nons are spending so much time on the case puts them in the truth seeker boat. People on the outside not spending any time at all researching the case think you all are nuts or need to get a life, regardless.

      The personal attacks for difference of opinion on this topic are the worst though.

  13. As for my other point, it’s this: NONE of the WM3 supporters I know and communicate with (both in life and on other forums) are accepting this new information at face value. Don’t think for one second that we don’t have inquizitive minds, that we don’t religiously read Callahans, and that we all just sit around, eagerly awaiting Peter Jackson to throw some money around so we can joyously revel at new names thrown into the mix. I think just about everyone in the WM3-supporter camp is pretty skeptical about this stuff…but don’t get me wrong, we’re all eagerly awaiting any further information regarding it. I don’t know about you, but my mind is still open to all possibilities regarding this case. We should not be religious in this debate, and by that I mean no position should be staunchly unfalsifiable…think I mangled that sentence. What I’m saying is, if you debate a devout Christian about his faith, you’re not really debating, because if they are truly devout, no amount of evidence brought forth will be able to change their mind. If someone stepped forward with a VHS tape of the WM3 killing those boys, every WM3 supporter (yes, Peter Jackson, Johnny Depp, and Eddie Vedder included) would admit they were wrong. If someone stepped forward with a VHS tape of Terry Hobbs committing those murders, would you? I’m sure the answer is yes, as I trust you are all fair and decent-minded people, despite the fact that we have a difference of opinion here. See, Darren Prosser? Now was that so hard?

  14. One final point (before someone co-opts my name to further impeach my credibility)…well, it’s more of a question. I have a question about the “non” position that I don’t think I’ve ever heard an adequate answer to. You tend to make a big thing about Jessie’s many confessions…so let me ask you this: If Jessie is guilty, and was willing to truthfully confess on numerous occasions, why did he not take the state’s offers of leniency to get back on the stand, confess once more, and implicate the other two guilty parties? If he had, he would have been walking the streets a lot earlier than 2011. I’m thinking, if I was in his shoes, I would have done that in a heart beat. Unless…perhaps…I was innocent…and so were the two people I’d be testifying against. But maybe that’s just me.

    1. Joey, to answer your question.. Quite simply, no offer of leniency was made to Miskelley. None could be offered because he was already convicted when the idea of a plea deal came up.

      1. Brado…i also think he wasn’t convicted yet when a plea deal was offered. But if i remember well it was not good enough for him. I think they offered him a deal of 40 or 50 years. If i recall right that’s what Stidham told him were the possibilities.
        Not good enough for Jessie, probably thought he would do better without such a plea bargin and he must have been shocked to death when he LATER got the lifesentence plus 2×20 years.

        1. After that PL1 shows the prosecution were prepared to negotiate his sentence down. Maybe drop the lifesentence but i don’t know whether that was ever offered to Jessie or whether he refused it.

          1. i somehow think jessie was very fast in accepting the situation as it was.OK i done it 40, 50 years doesn’t make no difference, they’ll get my ass when i’m in jail and if i testify against them now it will be all the worse.

            Something along those lines. Just guessing of course.

        2. I was answering Joey’s question as I understood it. Yes, Jessie turned downtheoriginal plea deals – perhaps out of fear from the others. On re-read I think I interpreted incorrectly as “why after conviction did Jessie not take. Plea deal?” My mistake. However, I will point out a possible plea was actually brought up between the defense and prosecution. However, the judge indicated no post conviction plea deal could be honored under Arkansas law.

        3. jesse was right, he did do better than 40-50 years……he only did 18 years. and they say he had an I Q of 42……i say bullshit. he saw the writing on the wall, thats why he recanted his confession, he realized that him, damien, and jason may actually get away with it.

          1. he was trying to get that reward money and not implicate himself, but then screwed himself by saying he tracked michael moore down. at this point he tried to put as much blame as possible on the other 2 by saying he left thus lessinging his role but the damage was done.

          2. Jesse is about 86 IQ… dumb but not a total idiot, smart enough to be walking free without Echols killing him. Echols is capable of any and all atrocities, not born with a conscience, I think Jesse is also a murderer but a follower of a sociopathic paedophile killer. Those three were guilty and will always stay guilty.

  15. WM3 supporter’s favourite phrases that make my ears bleed:

    “I’ve been studying this case for 16 years”
    16yrs seems to be a favourite amount of time for supporters to have studied this case, maybe Damien has given this number special meaning to his chubbycheckers

    “Terry Hobb’s is the killer because his hair was found at the crime scene”
    ‘A’ hair was found at the crime scene which could have come from 1.5% of the population

    “They were targeted because they wore black and listened to metallica”
    Forget the confession, a ‘Master of Puppets’ cassette tape was the deal clincher

    ‘Bojangles man did it” “Nope sorry, we meant Mark Byers” “Nope sorry, scratch that, we meant to say Terry Hobbs did it”
    Watch out Todd Moore, you’re next.

      1. Whatever happened to Domini?

        Not that it means too much, but her silence would be a little odd if Echols actually was innocent.

  16. Are you all so petty that the argument is seriously Byers vs WM3 vs Hobbs vs This newest crazy theory. Wake up, people! We will ever know the REAL truth of events as they occurred. Just forget intelligence for a second. COMMON SENSE tells us that 3 careless teenagers, who supposedly did not plan the murder; rather, took the opportunity when it arose to commit a “thrill kill” could not commit such heinous crimes to 3 obvious, terrified and screaming 8 year old babies and not leave a shred of evidence, be it DNA or otherwise at the crime/dump site. It just isn’t possible. You are asking me to believe that Damien was so powerful and convincing that not only did he rape, beat, mutilate and murder those kids that he did so with the help of a scrawny kid himself who would have a hard time restraining a toddler and a “not so smart” wise ass kid who didnt know whether he was coming or going half the time and not one of them made a mistake at all during the crime and left something, anything at all, behind? No way!
    I don’t know who did it. Bojangles is certainly a mystery and Hobbs is such a conniving liar that it’s hard to tell. BUT, I can tell you this: the wm3 did not do it because it was too clean.
    With that being said, I think this new theory is stupid! I’d put my money on Hobbs loosing his temper and going too far and then having to do a cover up. Just him. No Jacoby, no teen helpers, just Hobbs. I’m not sure where Bojangles comes in but it’s too strange to merely be a coincidence. The evidence points more that way than any other. Like I said in the beginning, we’ll never know the truthful, real story because AR isn’t interested in admitting that they made a mistake and continue to investigate to right their wrong.

    1. Hey..here it is again. It’s not “They didn’t do this”. No it has become “They can’t possibly have done this”. And acting quasi open-minded is exactly what those terrible lying- over-and-over-again supporters do.

      1. Frank, what does the second sentence in the second paragraph say? It sas they DIDN’T do it, not they couldn’t have.

        1. i was thinking about this sentence

          You are asking me to believe that Damien was so powerful and convincing that not only did he rape, beat, mutilate and murder those kids that he did so with the help of a scrawny kid himself who would have a hard time restraining a toddler and a “not so smart” wise ass kid who didnt know whether he was coming or going half the time and not one of them made a mistake at all during the crime and left something, anything at all, behind? No way!

          Comes pretty close i’d say. It’s heading to dismiss the weight of all the circumstantial evidence. The evidence against Hobbs or Bojangles is no match to the evidence against the convicted WM3. And i think your comment is implying it is.

          1. I guess I am implying that because I can answer one thing about TH: if my child had been missing and then found murdered and I had been looking for him or her, you can bet your ass that I’d remember every second of it…”not for 17, 18 or even 20 years” (as he has stated he could not remember everything that happened that long ago) but FOREVER! It would be so engrained in my mind and heart that I wouldn’t be able to forget even if I tried!

            So, if Hobbs doesn’t remember or better yet, has conveniently forgotten selective time frames, he is not now or ever was mourning for the loss of that baby. In his own words, he said and I quote,” I don’t give a shit what happened 17 years ago…” Any REAL grieving parent would have said,” the only thing I give a shit about that happened 17 years ago is that I lost my son!”
            Now, that alone does not make him guily but it sure does make him sound very innocent either.

          2. Sorry….fast typing creates typos……should have read *does NOT make him sound very innocent either.

          3. Frank,
            Well said ! Did someone say that Jason was too tiny to beat up 8 year olds ? Jason gets smaller and smaller as years go by .

        2. Ok, I’m all for the common sense route…

          Yes, I DO believe that Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelly could have (and did) kill Chris, Michael, and Stevie.

          This wasn’t the Italian Job. This was a creek bank. You commit the murders, you stuff them in the creek, you cup your hands, you splash water up on the bank, you’re done. Simple. Even if you believe Misskelly is retarded (which I don’t), he could’ve come up with this.

          Jason Baldwin wasn’t Olive Oyle or however you spell it. While he wasn’t as big as Echols or Misskelly, he was big enough to handle an 8 year old kid. And IQ and physical ability don’t go hand in hand so we can eliminate if Misskelly was able. He was physically able to wrestle, so I don’t think Michael Moore was that much of a challenge for him. And while Jessie might not have been the mastermind behind this, he was smart enough if Echols or Baldwin said “splash some water here” he could’ve done that.

          And while I’ve got you here, let me say I appreciate the fact that while you’re suspicious of the “evidence” against Bojangles and/or Hobbs, you’re not on the “they done it” bandwagon. Since you’re big on common sense, let me throw some your way.

          Do you think Hobbs would’ve been able to find Chris, Michael, and Stevie, corral them, and kill them and hide them by himself? Or Bojangles? And if you say “yes” to Hobbs, would he have been able to do this with Amanda (his daughter) in tow? And please remember, she has accused him of physical and sexual abuse in the past…why would she hide being a witness to the murder?

          Again, I applaud your effort to take a common sense approach to this. I don’t however believe that you have a grasp of the actual crime. You’re looking at this like it was some complex plan that destroyed the majority of physical evidence when all it was was simply hiding the bodies underwater (by the time they were found, the submersion would’ve destroyed the majority of physical evidence) and spashing some water on the bank (which washed away more of it).

          1. And no footprints or strands of long hair left in the bushes? Only hairs found with DNA that excludes them? Rope turning into shoestrings? 9 am turns into 7 pm? Splashing cleans all the evidence? What, they had 5- gal buckets? Anyone see a wet cult member? Oh yeah, Narlene. Love to get her back on the stand.
            Amanda was at the Jacoby’s.

          2. T-Rog,
            If you remember, Hobbs and Jacoby both stated that Amanda stayed at Jacoby’s houe to play while Hobbs left without her at least once. Plus, she was four years old. After seeing her on WOM, I think she has some really deep seeded guilt and confusion about something but it is clear she doesn’t know what. Could it be that she DID witness something? I don’t know but that child is really having a hard time with it.
            Also, I understand the bodies were under water. But, no evidence anywhere on the bank or in the area? Not even on a trail in and out of the woods? Nothing? I realize that nons believe the man hole theory is bogus but something about that really bothers me too. It may not be so “out there” as people would like to think. Again, using common sense and the picture evidence, you find this: The wounds on Stevie’s leg match the ladder bars out of man holes in the area perfectly. And the scratches on all three of them, specifically Michael match the scratches unused to get from falling and scraping while skating on my driveway as a kid. Concrete. So…do I think Hobbs could do it all alone? Yes. For 2 reasons: 1. The kids, even though they may have been scared that they were in trouble, would have trusted Hobbs more. I mean, Stevie had been in trouble before so why would they think he’d hurt them critically? They would have stood there a lot easier with Hobbs awaiting a lecture than with 3 random teens they didn’t know. 2. Hobbs’ actions on the day of the murder when Stevie is supposedly missing don’t match someone who is too terribly worried about finding his kid. It’s like he was worried about creating an alibi and possibly dumping Amanda for a period of time to deal with a mistake. We all know he had a temper. It’s been proven.
            If I were to go with this route, I don’t know where Bojangles fits in. It’s confusing.
            In regards to the turtles that people tend to make fun of–I am originally from AR and 90% of my family still lives there. My dad used to catch those huge turtles when he went hunting and brig them home to show me so I’ve seen them first hand and they are scary! Could they have caused the injuries seen in the photographs? Absolutely!
            I don’t actually think a knife was involved at all! No matter who did it–I don’t see knife wounds. And no one kills anyone with a knife by hitting them with it lie a bat. They stab. The kids didn’t have stab wounds.
            I’ve studied this case since the day it happened. I lived in Memphis at the time and remember reading about it in the paper. I’ve been by the crime/dump site millions of times. I am not stupid–I have two Master’s degrees. I’ve tried to be fair and not accuse anyone until I had gathered what I thought was a viable theory which is where my common sense comes in. Like I said, I don’t know who did it. I don’t know if it was Hobbs or Bojangles or someone unknown. I just look at the evidence and the behavior afterwards of those involved and my arrow points more towards Hobbs than anyone else at this time. I apologize if this upsets you but it’s just where I am at this point.

          3. If Bojangles is involved in some way, I’ve always thought he was probably a transient the killers paid to help them dispose of the bodies. I haven’t heard of any other crimes within walking distance of that restaurant at that same time that could have produced all of that blood. Personally not buying the turtle theory at all.

            The 3 little boys were murdered for some (insane) reason – there’s always a reason. Thrill kill? They saw too much? Were used for sex? It has to be one of those, but which one? The debate still goes on for me.

    2. sorry but I feel you are gullible if you still think Echols didn’t do this crime, Hobbs is completely innocent and here you are WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE AGAINST HOBBS. If Hobbs ever beats you up it is all you deserve. You have no right to even suggest anyone who has not been charged by police, you have one right though, that is you can try legal avenues. Here you are saying this publicly and you could be influencing (obstructing justice) a future trial. So many uncountable murderers have walked free because of a member of the public screwed things up by opening his mouth. Hobbs is certainly innocent. I say Echols is the killer all along, I have the right to say it publicly because he is a convicted felon, who walked free because of people like you and the WM3 “supporters” who are responsible for Echols the scumbag walking free.

  17. RANDOM THOUGHTS…

    I have to say that I find this latest twist in the WM3 saga to be disturbing. But my gut tells me that we might be getting closer to the truth.

    When I saw few months ago that this website added a new page about L.G. Hollingsworth, I felt relieved that I wasn’t alone in my suspicions. If you were to read some of the case files and timelines and not know anything about the WM3 and Paradise Lost frenzy, you’d probably wonder why L.G. wasn’t arrested.

    While the WM3 guys have shady alibis — they certainly never presented ones that 100% covered the times — Hobbs clearly places himself in those woods for crucial hours. He also puts himself driving around in a truck with Jacoby during those hours.

    The bible confession on first read will leave most people stunned. But when you step back and really think about the circumstances around how it was obtained — and the fact that it still talks about devil cults and briefcases and photographs – AND, not to mention, it ends with Jessie making it to the wrestling match?

    Whoever put together these latest charges has the luxury of time on their hands. Maybe they are trying to draw someone out. i say it’s working..

    SO — ask yourself — What makes more sense? Three teenagers who don’t hangout that often (WM3) randomly get together to drink (in a very short amount of time) at Robin Hood Hills AND –upon the mere sight of three little kids they don’t know– they FLY INTO A RAGE that involves multiple rape, mutilation and murder? Not one, but three. In daylight. With no concern if there was an adult trailing these kids?

    OR

    Four people: Two adult males (who acknowledge driving around together) and two (easily led) teenagers smoking weed and drinking whiskey in the woods. These are married men that are hiding secret sex lives. The older men force the teens (LG and Buddy) to wrestle — which, if you read the new statements — implies that this led to some form of sex acts between the men. NOW… the kids stumble upon THIS scenario and are quickly subdued and beaten and killed after an altercation and an effort to HUSH them goes terribly wrong.

    Buddy and LG are threatened. Both will later record statements implicating Damien — implying Damien had knowledge of crimes, etc. Was Buddy using Jessie to admit his own role in this crime?

    Who would LG and BUDDY fear more? Two teens Jason and Damien or two grown men, JACOBY and HOBBS?

    At the very least, where was L.G. on the night of the murders? Why wasn’t he arrested? He clearly lied about his alibi and was let go by the cops.

    I’m sorry — but this new development is OPENING DOORS — and probably lots of emotional wounds.

    Someone knows what happened in those woods. And chances are they are reading these words.

    1. If LG was involved it was as accomplice to Echols. He may have gotten rid of some of the evidence – clothing and possibly the dismembered penis. It could have been the smelly thing in the box. LG is dead so he is a convenient scapegoat.

      I believe the murderers were caught and convicted.

    2. Or, even simpler and more boring: how about, two bitter women with reported substance issues drag through the muck the names of the men who left them? (See also: hell hath no fury.)

      David Jacoby’s daughter, Victoria Lee: “I have heard this ab [Atty Ken] Swindle representing my mom, my mom and dad split ab 6 months ago she pretty much is addicted to pills and my dad just couldnt take it anymore. for the last week or so people have told me that pam and swindle have been over at my moms, then my moms calls my dad leaves multiple voicemails saying he will get whats coming to him and she will ruin his whole life, then this happened. i do not have a very good rerlationship with my mom but i am aware that she is very mad that my dad has left her, when i confronted her ab pam and swindle being there all she would say was that you think ur dads made of gold, how he left her there with no money etc…”

      Back to the crimes, and what’s more reasonable to believe: that a mentally ill, self-described sociopathic teen and his idiot follower buddies jumped some little kids until it escalated into a killing . . . or, that two doobie-smokin’ dudes well into their adult years, with no prior history of violence against children, took a sharp left and orchestrated a brutal massacre on an 8-year-old stepson and his friends. (And, David Jacoby was a friend to Stevie, too…)

      Further thoughts:

      — On May 5, Hobbs was supposedly babysitting Amanda (age 4). Where was she, during all this drivin’, drug-dealin’, wrasslin’ and killin’, if not with Jacoby and/or Hobbs, I wonder?

      — And are we done with turtles, all of a sudden?

      — And are we done with the Moyers/Clark sighting, perhaps, too?

      — And in this rage, supposedly fueled by the kids having seen things they shouldn’t have, the adults decide to cut the genitals of Chris Byers — a kid who’d just earlier that afternoon been sitting in the Hobbs household watching “Muppet Babies” with Amanda, in a scene of boring old domestic blahs? I mean, WTF? Yes, the crimes are terrible and senseless, regardless of who committed them, but I have a real hard time imagining this allegedly smoochin’-and-smokin’-up pair of dudes putting down the spliffs, to get their torture on.

      Here’s what I suspect has happened. Two convicted rapist scumbags serving long prison terms took advantage of their connection to a couple of peripheral case figures (one conveniently deceased), and, combined with the vast publicly available case information, they were able to sell a story to a lawyer of questionable ethics. And the bitter wives (and sisters, in the Hicks’ case) are more than ready to fan these flames higher. The upshot is, it all generates a lot of smoke — which, coincidentally, is always welcome by the wm3…

      Parting shot. L.G. did have problems with his account of May 5. And I continue to wonder what he may have known about these crimes. I am, however, skeptical that the truth about his possible knowledge will arrive presently, through the double rapist filter of Guy and Stewart.

      1. Excellent post Fred J. Yes, we are done with the snapping turtles. They were only damage control to the WM3 cutting off the penis. The followers now believe Hobbs cut off the boy’s penis. They can’t blame the murders on him and have this new story be true with the turtles anymore. The defense paid for an expert witness who now contradicts this latest fabrication. Can’t have it both ways. The more they flip flop the guiltier they seem. I would agree this is payback by bitter women and 2 cons out to make a buck.

        1. Not to be gross, but I have always suspected some wildlife chewed on the bodies. However, it is certainly possible open wounds attracted them. I am not impressed by the attempt of either side to dismiss the other as absurd.

      2. Fred J. Walsh–
        Have you not seen or heard of Hobbs’ violent past? How can you say he has never been violent towards children? You have heard Amanda accuse him of both and there have been witnesses that say Stevie was abused as well. In addition, Mildred French says she heard him beating his first wife and child when she lived next door. We all know his violence towards his wives, his brother in law and Mildred French herself. Someone like that is not going to spare a child just because they are smaller than an adult. Someone that has violent tendencies is violent, period. To everyone and anyone that enrages them.
        In regards to the turtles that people tend to make fun of or better yet, that you are saying all supporters are now dismissing (which I have not heard one person say)–I am originally from AR and 90% of my family still lives there. My dad used to catch those huge turtles when he went hunting and bring them home to show me so I’ve seen them first hand and they are scary! Could they have caused the injuries seen in the photographs? Absolutely!
        I don’t actually think a knife was involved at all! No matter who did it–I don’t see knife wounds. And no one kills anyone with a knife by hitting them with it like a bat. They stab. The kids didn’t have stab wounds.
        And the “cuts” as the prosecution called them–the scratches on all three of them, specifically Michael, match the scratches I used to get from falling and scraping my legs and knees while skating on my driveway as a kid. Concrete. Not knife scratches. Besides, who SCRATCHES someone with a knife? It’s preposterous!
        I don’t believe this latest tale of four individuals having their rendezvous in the woods either as it just sounds made up and stupid. But, I also don’t think that Hobbs can be completely cleared of any suspension either. There is enough evidence that proves he COULD have done it and very well might have as well.
        When looking at this–consider ALL evidence, not just what the city of West Memphis would like for you to believe. We all know that people in power do things to advance their careers first and foremost so it is not unheard of for them to make a mistake or jump to conclusions in order to look good in public.
        I am not saying Hobbs did it, but I am not saying the WM3 did it either. There are a lot of things to consider and you seem so hell bent on proving the WM3 are guilty that you are ignoring other important issues and evidence.

        1. Re: TH and children, and his in-law accusers

          What I have been made to understand is that TH used to discipline Stevie with a belt. He’s admitted to that much.

          The allegations that TH went beyond such forms of discipline and actually abused Stevie or Amanda physically/sexually are, as I understand it, near-entirely from the Hicks family camp, with their claims emerging only recently, after the divorce/custody battle with Pam and the (self-defense) shooting of their brother. Amanda, to my understanding, does not have recollection of her father abusing her. And there are no documented hospital records or child services records to support TH’s physical/sexual abuse of his children. My estimation of the source, here — the Hicks sisters — are that they have a sizeable axe to grind with TH and (from my observance of their online utterances) a tenuous relationship with facts and a discernible interest in money.

          To wit, here’s a conversation Sheila Hicks had with my friend Adam, shortly after the release in August 2011. Note two things. There’s curiously no hint of suspicion about Terry, at this point. (What about the physical abuse, the horrible sexual abuse, the hating Stevie, the washing clothes, the pocket knife, etc etc?) And Ms. Hicks is talking about winning money from the WM3 in a wrongful death suit.

          Adam Galvan I wish the media would tell [the boys’] story more often instead of just leaving it as a footnote on the WM3.
          August 20, 2011 at 2:16am · Like · 4
          Sheila Hicks Davidson Muse We knew b4 the media did what was going to happen. But youre right. Ppl need to remember there was no justice 4 my nephew and his 2 friends!
          August 20, 2011 at 2:24am · Like · 4
          Adam Galvan …I’m not sure how you feel about today’s events or the WM3’s guilt or innocence but I would have rather seen a new trial than them simply walking out today. The plea they made bugs me. They get to be both guilty and innocent now? So they’re sort of acknowledging that they could be convicted again? And they get to have a party with Vedder after going free? I hope that money supporters gave them gets taken away from them if they are guilty.
          August 20, 2011 at 2:54am · Like · 2
          Sheila Hicks Davidson Muse I feel the same as you. The money wont last them long when they are slapped with a wrongful death suit!
          August 20, 2011 at 2:57am · Like · 1
          Sheila Hicks Davidson Muse We know that. They admitted guilt today. The state even said they had the right ones… A wrongful death suit is a civil matter.
          August 20, 2011 at 3:03am · Like
          Adam Galvan I hope you and the rest of the families sue the shit out of them now. And take away all that cash Maryln Manson, Depp, Vedder, Ozzy, Jack Black and the Dixie Chicks gave them. As well as get any money from any book or movie deals they try to get.
          August 20, 2011 at 3:04am · Like · 3
          Sheila Hicks Davidson Muse Thats exactly what we plan to do. OJ Simpson was aquitted and Ron Goldbergs family won the wrongful death suit. Idk if thats going to happen but it very well could.

          Obviously things have changed in the Hicks camp since August, 2011. Why that might be, is left for each of us to guess at. Personally I suspect that, when there proved to be more money and personal satisfaction in dragging their bro-in-law through the muck, those attractions were influences on their beliefs.

          1. Possibly, but they didn’t fake the hairs of Hobbs & Davis near & on the bodies. This probably would have gotten rolling at some point without the divorce. Angry ex spouses are right sometimes, too. The looking for money is sickening though. I have unfortunately known rednecks who would steal their mother’s last dollar if given half a chance, but that doesn’t mean their pain over the deaths isn’t real. Rednecks are strange, ill-bred people and their behavior is unpredictable.

      3. Fred ,
        If LG had anything to do with the murders it would have been helping Jason and Echols to cover up their part .

      4. Fred J. Walsh,
        “Back to the crimes, and what’s more reasonable to believe: that a mentally ill, self-described sociopathic teen and his idiot follower buddies jumped some little kids until it escalated into a killing . . . or, that two doobie-smokin’ dudes well into their adult years, with no prior history of violence against children, took a sharp left and orchestrated a brutal massacre on an 8-year-old stepson and his friends. (And, David Jacoby was a friend to Stevie, too…)”
        First off, the self-proclaimed sociopath teen and his “idiot” buddies didn’t have a prior history of violence against children either. What exactly are you saying is Damien, Jessie, and Jason’s motive for supposedly killing the three boys? They just “jumped” them for no reason? Okay, got it Sherlock! That’s CLEARLY a much better theory than saying that 4 adult men “took a sharp left” and committed the crimes. Learn how to form a rational thought and opinion please.
        Secondly, it’s been documented that Terry dropped Amanda off at the Jacoby’s for an extended period of time the evening of May 5th. So there’s the hole in that theory.
        I’ve been a follower of this case as long as every one else on this board I imagine and I have a vested interest in finding out all that I possibly can. But for you to write so moronically and without factual support the above statements tells me one thing, you certainly aren’t very knowledgeable about the case.

        1. “First off, the self-proclaimed sociopath teen and his ‘idiot’ buddies didn’t have a prior history of violence against children either…”

          Wrong. In the months preceding the murders Jessie Misskelley is recorded to have punched a 13-yr-old girl in the face. (There is a documented record of the police visit.) Additionally his wrasslin’ buddy Dennis Carter told police that not long before, Misskelley had struck a 6-year-old girl in the head with a rock and laughed about it. Carter told cops he wasn’t surprised that Misskelley would be mixed up in the crimes.

          So, you’re wrong about Misskelley having no record of violent acts against children. In fact, in his younger years, his stepmother Shelbia is on record as being very concerned about Jessie’s anger and his seeming inability to control it.

          As for Damien, in the fall before the crimes, his own parents were saying they didn’t want him to return to their home for fear of what he could do to them and the children residing there. In Damien’s own words shortly before the murders, we have admissions of feelings beyond rage, and that when he blows up, “the only solution is to hurt someone,” etc.

          But these are just a few of the indications that the WM3 make apt suspects for these crimes. Take a look at the profiles of Echols and Misskelley on this site, and I believe their possible participation in something of this nature (as leader and follower) may become more conceivable to you.

          As for a “reason” or motive for the WM3, I believe it was a perfect storm of mental illness, suppressed rage, an unhealthy friend dynamic, bad timing, alcohol . . . You’re free to conclude otherwise of course. But calling my opinions “moronic” or not based in case research, is pretty well off-base and unnecessary, eh…

      5. 1. Amanda was with Bobby Jacoby.
        2. There were different types of wounds on the bodies.
        3. The Moyers sighting probably happened a little earlier.
        4. It seems Hobbs was jealous of Chris kissing Amanda.
        5. How could Guy and Stewart make all of that story up when Lucas was repeating it all in 95?? Where would they get the details?? My question would be who at work was Lucas telling he was involved??
        6. None of those 4 had an alibi. oops.

    3. This is complete fantasy. How do you force someone to wrestle? If you could do that, why would that lead to a sudden spontaneous homosexual awakening among two men? Not only that, but then because they are now homosexual, they choose to murder 3 kids?

      Are there no gay supporters who have a problem with the implications of this new theory? It implies that Hobbs and the others by virtue of being bi-sexual are also homicidal; that murder and mayhem are a natural consequence of being gay.

    4. You should rename yourself “ClutchingAtStraws”… that is the most illogical crap I have read on this site so far, I think your IQ is lower than Misskelly’s.

  18. The real reason bible bashers are against homosexual couples adopting kids is because they associate being gay with paedophillia. Now with this latest ‘development’ supporters (who are an ignorant bunch) believe that because Hobbs & Jacoby were secret gay lovers then it makes perfect sense that they carried out the sexual murders of 3 little boys.

    1. At this point, both groups of supposed killers (Echols & co. VS. Hobbs & co.) engaged in homosexual acts. So the complaint about this targeting gays/bis is really a moot point.

  19. Back to basics.

    Anybody here who wonders where the WM3 were at the time of the murders?

    Guess not because we know they didn’t do it

  20. Poor ‘ol Terry can’t catch a break. His ex-wife & family accuse him of abusing both Pam, Amanda & Stevie, he shoots his brother-in-law, he’s arrrsted for drugs, he attacks his elderly neighbor, he moves 2 weeks after the murders, he’s got Stevie’s pocketknife, DNA consistent with him is found in a victim’s binding knot, he doesn’t tell his wife her son is missing, he says he’s searching with dozens of people before the kids are reported missing, he says he met up with JMB at 6 pm when it was actually 8 or 8:30 pm, his ex-girlfriend says he told her he found the bodies before the police, neighbors reports seeing him with the boys when he says he hadn’t seen his stepson all day…and now this. I mean, the guy’s a regular Ward Cleaver, hard not to feel sorry him.

    1. In addition, I can answer one thing about the infamous Mr. Hobbs: if my child had been missing and then found murdered and I had been looking for him or her, you can bet your ass that I’d remember every second of it…”not for 17, 18 or even 20 years” (as he has said he couldn’t remember everything that happened that long ago) but FOREVER! It would be so engrained in my mind and heart that I wouldn’t be able to forget even if I tried!

      So, if Hobbs doesn’t remember or better yet, has conveniently forgotten selective time frames, he is not now or ever was mourning for the loss of that baby. In his own words, he said and I quote,” I don’t give a shit what happened 17 years ago…” Any REAL grieving parent would have said,” the only thing I give a shit about that happened 17 years ago is that I lost my son!”

      1. What percentage of poor Arkansas Dad’s disciplined their sons with belts, and were disciplined by their Dad’s with a belt? I would estimate 80-90%

        Terry Hobbs is not some blue state liberal living up in Connecticut. He doesn’t do Yoga. They didn’t have cell phones in 1993. If you apply your “standards” of what a good Dad is, Terry Hobbs probably doesn’t fit in many of them.

        But I’m not going to pass judgement on the way children were raised in the past in the South. Frankly, I’m willing to bet they were right in a lot of ways. You can criticize Terry for Amanda not becoming a Rhodes scholar, but Hobbs certainly didn’t get any help from Pam, and the scars of what happened to that family run deep.

        I don’t think Terry is the best guy in the world. But his profile for killing three kids and then going out and living a fairly typical lower class southern Dad’s life does not fit.

        In case you didn’t notice, the phenomenon of fairly typical red state Dad’s going crazy killing a bunch of neighborhood kids, and then going back to normal life ..DOESN’T exist.

        But not only does the phenomenon of teenage sociopathic thrill kills exist. They happen all the time…all over this country and world.

        The evidence that millions of dollars dug up on first Byers, and then Hobbs is not impressive. The evidence against the WM3 is.

        1. Jack203,
          Your last three paragraphs are completely absurd. You seriously believe that a parent (or sorry, father) Sub thought – where does “of a fairly typical red state” even factor in to your rant? is incapable of killing his child/step-child? Do you watch the national news? Read much? I’m certainly not going to use your chosen word “phenomenon”, but I will say that, unfortunately, IT HAPPENS QUITE OFTEN! And to say that Hobbs went back to “normal life”, wth does that even mean? You’re speaking in generalities in that makes you look unintelligent to be perfectly honest. Have there been past instances where kids have killed other kids? Absolutely. But I seriously hope you’re not sitting back all proudly after writing the above statement like you’ve just uncovered the key fact in this case when there have been just as many instances of parents killing their kids as there have been kids killing other kids.

          1. Your method of distorting my arguments and responding to points I never said nor believe is a strong indication a conversation with you will be a complete waste of time.

            If you want to argue about something I actually said, I’ll respond.

            Until then, you can just go ahead and believe I am in awe of your brilliance, intellect, and critical thinking skills.

      2. Why is it so hard for you to realise that we had the right murderer all along, his name Is Damien Echols and he is walking free. If Hobbs did it the police would have arrested and charged him for the murder. I am sick to death of the total mistrust of ALL police by people like you who always think that it’s the law that is the criminal. The evidence is all over Callahan, grow a brain son. You had better get a lawer if you want to accuse someone never charged with a crime.

        I wouldn’t be offended if we were talking about Jack The Ripper because no one is alive from that time. Hobbs should be taking out lawsuits on people making accusations. Both Hobbs and Byers are far from normal but that isn’t evidence, you had better take your “evidence” to those who have a legal right to try and charge a criminal they are called lawers.

    2. A decent amount of the above could have to do with TH marrying into the wrong family. And Amanda Hobbs doesn’t recall being abused by her dad. In fact when given the choice, she elected to be with him, rather than her mom. Hm.

      1. She said she QUESTIONS being sexually abused but has admitted physical abuse. She even broke into tears stating that if her mom would have known he was abusing her, maybe Pam would have fought for her. Instead, Pam was so lost and broken bc of Stevie, she didn’t fight. I’m not condoning that as a mother but Amanda did not chose. The choice was made for her! And balling hysterically, she said her mom won’t let her live there now bc she’s too wild. This all ame out of Amanda”‘s mouth. In addition, there are diary entries made by Amanda in which she does accuse him of both sexual and physical abuse.

        1. No, IIRC, in West of Memphis Amanda says she doesn’t know if her Aunt’s allegations about her sexual abuse have any truth to them, but IF they did, she wonders why her aunt didn’t come forward at the time and say something that could have made her Mom fight for her custody. A lot of confusion, there.

  21. None of the WM3 have an alibi. Terry Hobbs does.

    The WM3 confessed to the murders. Terry Hobbs has not.

    Damien Echols has a history of mental illness, threats and violence. Hobbs does not.

    Witnesses put Echols near the crime scene at the time of the murders.

    The DNA is inconclusive.

    The WM3 were arrested, tried and convicted. Upheld by the Supreme Court.

    Case closed.

    1. Hobbs does not have a truthful alibi. Everything he has stated as an alibi has been contradicted by the people he has tried to use as alibis. Hense: no alibi for Hobbs either.

      Hobbs won’t ever confess to murder. He’s too narcissistic. JESSE confessed to the murders–if you call what he said a confession. There is no evidence whatsoever that Jason ever confessed or any relable evidence that Damien actually confessed either. Damien was a Smart ass teenager, stupidly picking his battles or ignoring them when the mood struck.

      Hobbs has a rap sheet a mile long of threats and violence. How can u say he doesn’t?

      Witnesses put Echols and DOMINI near the crime scene. Not Jason or Jesse. And quite frankly, I read Narlene’s transcripted testimony and she goes back and forth on dates and days and crazy stuff so much that Fogelman finally asked Davidson to hurry with his questioning. Reliable witness there! Oh! And Domini was her niece! You think she confused her own flesh and blood for a boy or anyone else for that matter? She said she was positive it was Domini. She also stated that Domini had a white flower print on her jeans. I don’t think Jason wore white flowers on his jeans so IF she saw them, it was Damien and Domini which puts a whole new spin on things, don’t you think?

      The DNA excludes the WM3 but does not exclude Hobbs. It is not inconclusive in its exclusions.

      Yes, the WM3 were tried and convicted with a crooked judge overseeing the whole thing. Big surprise.

      I’m not saying Hobbs did it, mind you, but the case is definitely not closed in regards to answers.

      1. Terry took Pam to work at 5:00 pm. He had Amanda with him. They drove around and looked for the boys. They went to David’s and played guitars. Terry picked up Pam at 9:00. Unlike the WM3 who none of them have a credible alibi, Terry can be accounted for.

        1. You are correct–he took her at 5. He picked her up at 9. But, you are missing FOUR hours! He has no witnesses that saw him do anything in those 4 hours but when he was at Jacoby’s house.

          1. Info ,
            Your wrong around 7:30 to 8:00 Byers said he was with Terry Hobbs . Then he has David’s House and David’s WIFE . They both came back to David’s house with the same clothes not covered in blood or mud. Unlike Echols and Jason that were seen walking down the road covered in mud . This story has so many holes in it . Lets go back to the theory that Byers killed them . It makes more sense since he would be furious at Christopher for not cleaning the garage .

          2. Info411. I asked the following question to Tangiers and Joey, but with no response. I will gladly ask you too.

            “Question for Joey and Tangier.

            What exactly did happen in your opinion? Please be as specific as possible. I want exact times for everything.

            From what I know of Terry Hobbs timeline, he is with his 4 year old daughter part of the time, with David Jacoby at other times, with his father in law, Pam, and other family members on other times. So in between all these times with various people he’s murdering three kids in a manhole, then later coming back in the middle of the night to move bodies and bikes? Why even come back? What is the motive to start killing children? One doesn’t just turn off that kind of psychosis very easily.

            It’s all a jumbled mess coming from your side. I want a clear timeline and plausible scenario.

            The Nons have absolutely no problem with exact timelines and detailing exactly what happened. Your side does.”

          3. It is hard to believe that 3 people are on trail for murder and not a single one of them has a credible alibi.

            Echols still claims he was on the phone talking to his 12 to 15 year old girlfriends. But the girls testimony showed he was not home. Jessie’s alibi that he was at wrestling was disproved. Baldwin’s attorney would not even present an alibi because it was not credible.

            Where were the WM3 at the time of the murders? I will tell you. They were committing the crime.

          4. Donna–
            Unlike Echols and Jason that were seen walking down the road covered in mud ?

            It was Damien and DOMINI that was supposedly seen. Not Jason.

          5. They could have mistaken Domini for Jason. He had long hair.

            Eyewitnesses put Damien Echols at the murder scene at the time of the crime. Very damaging.

          6. Do u think Narlene would confuse Jason for Domini? Domini is her niece! A relative! I’d know if I saw my niece walking doen the road. Jason had long hair but it was blonde, curly and a mullet. Domini had red hair and was all one length and straight.
            Narlene said Domini had a white flower pattern on her tight jeans. Since when do goth kids, boys specifically, wear tight jeans with white flowers on them?
            The biggest issue though is that Narlene must be an idiot if she can’t even recognize her own niece?

    2. BS, Hobbs alibi fell apart when Jacoby decided to distance himself when his hair was found. Hobbs had a violent history of beating his first wife and invading his neighbors shower, grabbing her naked breast, warning her he killed her cat. Narlene Hollingsworth was lying to protect L G. There’s still unidentified DNA, probably belonging to Lucas and/or Hollingsworth. The case is not closed, the tipline is still open.

  22. The whole case has been destroyed by money. All these worms are crawling out looking for a slice of Peter Jackson’s cash pie. Pam Hobbs is a crack head who will say anything for drug money. Byers is obsessed with being on the side which has the money. Carson, Jacoby, John Douglas and everyone in WoM were paid to side with the WM3. There are billboards all over West Memphis which offer money for information. Ring the number and claim you heard triple hearsay and it will be put in the doc and you will get a big fat cheque. Its an insult to the 3 deceased boys.

      1. Which ones? What is your point?

        If a defense “expert” is content with getting his name in the paper instead of a check, does that subtract from Matt’s point?

  23. Matt,
    Which makes this a copy cat of the OJ trial . 🙂 Money can buy experts that will say anything you want if the price is right . How many experts now ?

  24. common sense theory
    the main reason for vm3 supporters belief that the wm3 are innocent is a lack of dna evidence.
    things wrong with this statement and case
    1.the assumption that these three teenagers who have above average IQ( minus Jessie Misskelley) where not capable of covering up the murder. This would lead me to believe that vm3 supporter believe that the more likely series of events is that terry hobbs a red neck with a below average IQ managed to cover his tracks on his own something which the vm3 would not be capable of?
    2.vm3 supporters constantly manipulate information in there favour. Making up story’s constantly accusing whoever they want on a whim.
    3.In regards to the Alford guilty plea they had been in prison for 18 years looking to get a re-trial which they would have got if they had not taken the Alford guilty plea. surely it would have made more sense to spend 2-3 more years in prison to be able to leave prison acquitted of the murder charges and the option of taking a civil lawsuit against the state. The only reason they took the Alford guilty plea is because they are guilty.
    4. Naive celebrity’s should not have got involved in this case as they are being easily led by vw3 supporters which has resulted in 3 child murders being released
    5. The number one reason I believe they are guilty is all three confessed numerous times and referred to details which the public where not aware of at the time and only the killers could know.

  25. What about the fibers found on the 3 boys that were consistent with clothing from Echols and Baldwin. There is also the blue candle wax found on the boys that was consistent with the same blue candle wax from Echols trailer. These two facts are, if you ask me, why the Alford plea was pursued. The WM3 defense team likes to try to ignore this inconvenient evidence because they know very well it points to their guilt. So for all this posturing by Swindle and others…ummm full of sound and fury signifying nothing!

    1. If the wax was real concrete evidence then the Alford Plea deal would’ve never been offered to the WM3. You honestly think if the prosecuters had hard evidence that wasn’t just circumstantial they’d agree to let them out of prison? Sounds about right. .

      1. That is exactly why those highly paid defense attorney superstars lobbied for an Alford plea. Personally, I think Ellington was just playing an everybody wins by agreeing to Alford plea and obviously knows money can buy a lot. Make no mistake, the very fact they pursued (WM3) Alford was because they know they are guilty and knew evidence like this might start waking up some of the brain dead zombies that follow them…and let us not forget the murder groupies…lol.

  26. Jack203,
    As I have stated many times in my post, I don’t know who I think did it. I don’t know that Hobbs did it, I don’t know that Bojangles did it, I don’t know that Byers did it, and I don’t know if some random unknown person did it. I just find it impossible and the story too full of holes that the WM3 did it. The WM2? Maybe….IF Damien was seen with Domini, maybe he and Jesse did it and met up with Domini. I just don’t see traces of Jason anywhere in any scenario. I honestly don’t think any of the WM3 did it but that is just my opinion at this point in my life. The more I see and read and study, the more I lean towards Hobbs. As I have stated somewhere in all of this, I lived in Memphis when this all happened and have been “hung up” on this case from the beginning. I am originally from AR and 90% of my family still lives there. I have encountered the turtles they speak of first hand and I grew up around ditches and patches of woods similar to RHH. BUT—if you ask me to come up with a timeline of what I think TODAY, this is it: (it may change tomorrow as I learn more but for now, this is where I’m leaning)

    First, let’s look at the evidence I am basing my opinion on:
    At between 4:00 and 4:30 pm on the afternoon of May 5th, 1993 (the day of the murders), Michael Moore told a classmate that he “was going down to his secret hide-out behind the Mayfair Apartments”. There were several manholes in this area.
    These manholes contained ladder rungs reinforced with rebar and, in 1993, the rungs were made of exposed x-patterned rebar.
    A skin impression on the left thigh of Steve Branch is consistent with peri-mortem contact with an angled piece x-patterned rebar. No such object was found in or around the ditch where the bodies were discovered although a very thorough metal detector search of the crime scene area was conducted by the WMPD. It did, however, match perfectly with the rebar ladder from the manholes.
    A scrape-mark on the right shoulder of Michael Moore is consistent with “road rash”….or having been dragged across a roughly troweled concrete surface. The manhole bases in the Robinhood Hills area are roughly troweled concrete. There is no other source of concrete in the wooded area.
    An abrasion on the scalp of Michael Moore is consistent with having been dropped head-first on a pebbly concrete surface. The floors of the manholes have this pebbly concrete texture. Basilar skull fractures to all three victims were not caused by blows, but are consistent with a head-first impact to the upper skull which transfers force to the more fragile skull base.
    The bodies were found tied with shoelaces in a wrist-to-ankle manner with several inches of slack between the knots. They were also determined to have been bound after death. Since this manner of binding would not serve-well to restrain the victims, and the boys were tied after death….it leads to the conclusion that the bodies were tied as a means of transport up and out of one of these concrete structures.
    If we accept the above evidence, ……the victims were confronted by their perpetrator within RRH around 7:00 PM on May 5th, 1993. They were severely injured and their bodies secluded in a concrete drainage structure where a fur-bearing animal predated on the bodies. (hence the scratches) The perpetrator returned to the scene, probably at least two more times before sun-rise on May 6th, removed the victims’ clothes (before the animal predation), tied the bodies with their own shoelaces, and moved them to a nearby ditch where they were submerged under two feet of water along with their clothes, where the turtle predation probably happened on Chris and the bite on Stevie.
    This scenario would require the perpetrator to spend around 30 minutes during the initial attack…an additional 15 to 20 minutes while he stripped the victims of their clothing,… and another 30 minutes to tie them wrist-to-ankle and move the bodies to the ditch.
    So, with all of that in mind, the following timeline is plausible:

    2:45 pm……….. Pam and Amanda pick Stevie up from Weaver Elementary.

    3:10 pm…………Michael arrives at the Hobbs’ house asking Stevie to ride bikes.

    3:25 pm…………Chris arrives at the Hobbs’ house and stays to watch Muppet Babies with Amanda.

    3:45 pm…………After looking for Chris, JMB takes Ryan to the Courthouse.

    4:00 pm…………Chris leaves the Hobbs’ house.

    4:15 pm…………Terry Hobbs arrives home from work.

    4:45 pm…………Terry, Amanda, and Pam leave their house for Catfish Island.

    4:45 pm………..Chris meets-up with Stevie and Michael on Goodwin near Proctor. They decide to go back to Stevie’s house. (Stevie is late and needs to get home)

    4:50 pm………..Stevie, Michael, and Chris arrive at the Hobbs’ house. Stevie changes from jeans into shorts.

    5:00 pm…………Terry and Amanda arrive back home from Catfish Island. Stevie asks Terry permission to stay out later. Terry allows Stevie to stay out until 6:00 pm. The boys follow Terry and Amanda to the Jacoby’s house.

    5:05 pm…………Terry and Amanda arrive at Jacoby’s house. Jacoby sees Stevie, Michael, and Chris ride by his house as the door is opened for Hobbs.

    5:25 pm…………..JMB and Melissa arrive home from Memphis.

    5:30 pm………….JMB goes south on 14th Street and finds Chris on his skateboard.

    5:35 pm……Chris is spanked by JMB and told to clean up the carport.

    5:45 pm……Otto and Allen Bailey encounter Stevie and Michael on W.E. Catt Street with “back-packs”. Stevie is wearing shorts and Michael says that they need to hurry and pick up Chris.

    6:00 pm……Dana Moore sees Chris, Stevie, and Michael on two bikes heading north on 14th Street . (this corrborates the Bailey’s encounter and the statement of Melissa Byers)

    6:30 pm……All three boys are seen by the Clarks… running from their back-yard toward South McAuley as Terry Hobbs yells for the boys to return to his house. (This sighting of Hobbs and Amanda is consistent with Jacoby’s statement of Hobbs leaving his house around 6:15 pm) [This sighting is slightly inconsistent with the Dana Moore sighting only because of the direction that she saw the boys going at about 6 pm (north) when the Hobbs’ house is located to the south, However, the boys may have seen Dana before she saw them…and headed north to avoid her, then turned south and rode down Wilson to S McAuley.]

    About 6:45 pm….David Jacoby states that Hobbs checked with him to see if Stevie had come by. Jacoby volunteers to help Hobbs look for Stevie. Hobbs takes Jacoby on a very short 10-15 search around the immediate neighborhood.

    About 7:00 pm……Hobbs takes Jacoby back home and drops him off. He tells Jacoby that he wants to check some other places where Stevie might be. (It’s odd that Hobbs would not want Jacoby with him when he checked out these places).

    [7:00 pm to 7:45 pm….Hobbs finds Stevie, Michael, and Chris at their “secret hideout” (manhole) in the Blue Beacon Woods. He loses his temper and strikes Stevie in the head causing severe injury. Michael and Chris are also severely injured as Hobbs decides to eliminate any witnesses. The boys are dropped into the manhole and their bikes are dumped into the 10 Mile Bayou] *It is important to note here that I do not think he intended to kill Stevie but once it had gone that far, he freaked out and had to eliminate any possible connection for himself.

    About 7:50 pm…..Hobbs returns to Jacoby’s house and asks for help in searching for Stevie. They search the same areas that they had searched earlier, and when a little girl tells them that she saw some boys on bikes near the woods…Hobbs takes Jacoby back home to gather up some flashlights rather than immediately checking out the girl’s story. Jacoby is dropped off again and Hobbs says that he’ll be back, but never returns.

    8:10 pm…..Dana Moore stops by Hobbs’ house looking for Stevie. Hobbs follows Moore to her house.

    8:08-8:15 pm…..Officer meek takes Chris’ MPR at the Byers’ house.

    8:13 pm…..Dana sees Officer Meek’s patrol car in the Byers’ driveway. She knocks on the door and tells Meek and Byers that she saw all three boys at about 6 pm heading north on 14th Street. Hobbs parks his car and stays away until Meek has left. Ryan goes door-to-door asking about Chris.

    8:17 pm……Meek leaves and drives around looking for the boys.

    8:20 pm…..Ryan comes back and says that the boys were seen entering the woods at the Goodwin dead-end around 6:30 pm. Hobbs joins the other parents and they all head toward RobinHood.

    8:27 pm…..Officer Meek parks at the McAuley Dead-end, walks down to the pipe-bridge area, then returns to her car and leaves the area.

    8:32 pm……Hobbs goes west toward the pipe-bridge (Amanda stays with Dana and Melissa). JMB walks around in the field and then decides to go back home and change clothes. Robbie and Richie arrive and search the trails. Ryan and Brit wait in the car until about 8:50pm, then walk to the rope-swing area.

    8:38 pm……Hobbs returns to his car and drives to the Union 76 parking lot.

    8:42 pm…….Hobbs takes his 9mm gun out of his car and walks back to the “secret hideout” to make sure the boys are dead, that there’s no evidence around the manhole, and to keep other searchers away from the area (Amanda is left in the car).

    8:45 pm…….Meek checks a license plate on 20th Street.

    8:50 pm………Ryan and Brit walk to the rope-swing area. Richie and Robbie are searching the trails in the western part of RHH south of the pipe-bridge.

    9:04 pm………Meek is on Roy Pugh taking a call for a house egging.

    9:05 pm………Hobbs makes his way to the rope-swing area by-way of the north side of the bayou. He tosses some rocks into the water to scare Ryan and Brit out of the woods.

    9:10 pm…….Hobbs goes back by the manhole where the boys’ bodies are hidden. He’s seen by a black transient and fires a gunshot grazing the man’s arm. The man gets away and runs west through the muddy field. Hobbs throws the hand-gun into the bayou near the pipe-bridge.

    9:15 pm……JMB arrives back at RHH after changing into over-alls and boots. He walks back to the bayou and Devil’s Den area.

    9:17 pm……..Hobbs drives across 7th Street and arrives at Catfish Island to pick up Pam.

    9:19 pm……..Hobbs phones the police to report Stevie missing.

    9:24 pm……..Officer Meek takes Michael’s MPR from Dana Moore.

    9:25 pm……..The black man enters the Bojangles restaurant.

    9:25 pm……..Ryan and Brit meet Robbie and Richie at the pipe-bridge area. Robbie and Richie had heard the gunshot. Ryan and Brit had heard the splashes. The boys decide to cross the pipe-bridge.

    9:30 pm…….Officer Moore arrives at Catfish Island and takes Stevie’s MPR. Pam states that Stevie was last seen wearing blue jeans. This is the first time Hobbs realized that Stevie was not wearing shorts when Pam allowed him to ride his bike with Michael. Hobbs knows he needs to swap the jeans for the shorts, otherwise Pam will know that Stevie came home after she went to work….something Hobbs has denied.

    9:34 pm……Meek takes a call for Track Liquors, but is relieved by Shrader and Joplin who are closer. Instead Meek takes a call to Bojangles and arrives at about 9:50 pm (the WMPD log is off by 1 hour. This is in agreement with Marty King’s testimony)

    9:42 pm…….Officer Moore, Pam, Terry, and Amanda arrive at the Goodwin Dead-end.

    9:45 pm…….The black man leaves the Bojangles restaurant.

    9:45 pm…….Officer Moore meets JMB coming out of the woods. They search the RHH area together.

    9:55 pm…….Ryan, Brit, Robbie, and Richie cross back over to the south-side of the pipe-bridge.

    10:00 pm…..Meek leaves Bojangles and drives back to the McAuley Dead-end where she talks with Ryan and Brit and goes with them to search some vacant houses.

    10:10 pm……Hobbs takes Pam and Amanda home. While Pam is changing clothes, Hobbs takes Stevie’s jeans and drives back to the Union 76 parking lot. There are no searchers in the Blue Beacon Woods at this time. Hobbs climbs down into the manhole and removes Stevie’s shorts. Instead of leaving Stevie unclothed and different than the other two boys, he removes the clothes of all three. Hobbs takes the back-packs, Chris’ medical ID bracelet, and Michael’s wrist compass and leaves the woods at about 11:00 pm. He puts Stevie’s knife in his pocket.

    10:15 pm…..Officer Moore and JMB leave the woods.

    10:20 pm……Pam walks Amanda down to the Jacoby’s house. She makes a few phone calls and Jacoby drives them back to their house at about 11:20 pm.

    10:55 pm…….Meek arrives at the WMPD station for shift change. She talks to JMB on the phone.

    11:10 pm……..JMB and Ryan search the area behind the Blue Beacon.

    11:20 pm…….Hobbs arrives back home along with Pam, Jacoby, and Pam’s parents who Pam had called from Catfish Island and have driven down from Blytheville.

    11:30 pm…….Hobbs goes with Jacoby and Pam searches with her parents.

    12:00 midnight….Hobbs, Jacoby, JMB, and Jackie Hicks Sr. meet under the streetlight at Dana Moore’s house.

    12:15 am……Hobbs, Jacoby, and Hicks Sr search the Robinhood area.

    12:15-2am……JMB, Tony Hudson, and Melissa search together.

    2:00 am………JMB and Melissa return home.

    2:45 am………Jacoby and Hicks Sr. end their search of the woods. Jacoby goes home and Hicks Sr. goes back to Hobbs’ house.

    3:30 am……….Hobbs returns to RRH. He wants to move the bodies away from the manhole where the black man saw him and get the bodies away from any possible trace evidence. He enters the manhole and decides to tie the bodies in a way in-which he can transport them out of the manhole and over to the drainage ditch without getting wet and bloody. Hobbs uses the victims’ shoelaces and ties them wrist-to-ankle leaving enough slack as a “handle”. He uses Stevie’s knife to cut one of the longer laces to save time. (Remember, he grew up on a hog slaughtering farm)

    5:00 am………Hobbs returns home. He tells Pam that he’s been searching with Jacoby all night.

    In addition and (for further explanation of events)
    At about 1-2 am, Hobbs, Jacoby, and Hicks Sr walked from the BB Truck Wash to the pipe-bridge. During that search…Hobbs ducked down a trail that led to the ditch. He claims that this is when he got scared and returned to Jacoby and Hicks Sr. If the bodies were in the ditch at this time…and Hobbs had wanted Jacoby and Hicks Sr to find them while he was present…this would have been the perfect opportunity.
    We can safely say that Hobbs was with Jacoby and Jackie Sr in the area behind the Blue Beacon from 1am until about 2:30 am. At that point, and at Hobbs’ urging, Jacoby went home. According to Pam…Hobbs and Hicks Sr searched together and separately until about sunrise. By watching Hobbs’ Pasdar deposition video, we can see that he wants everyone to think Jacoby was with him all night long. Hobbs avoids admitting that Jacoby ever went home that night. So…the fact that Hobbs tried to use Jacoby as an alibi, but doesn’t try to use Hicks Sr…indicates that Hobbs was alone for much of the time between Jacoby’s departure at about 2:30 am and sunrise.
    It’s logical to believe that Hobbs was anxious to move the bodies ASAP after the other searchers left the area. He wouldn’t want to risk waiting too long, until the police finally showed up or until sunrise.
    So….I’m thinking that Hobbs returned to the area to move the bodies as soon as he was confident that he could get back to the woods without Hicks Sr. When Jacoby decided to go home would have been a perfect time for Hicks Sr to check-in with Pam and let her know the progress of the search. After talking with Pam, I’m thinking that Hicks Sr went to the WMPD for any updates…and that would have been the perfect time for Hobbs to return to the woods alone. I believe that Hobbs went back to the woods at about 3:00 am. But, before leaving the house, he took a different pair of shoes and probably a towel with him. Hobbs knew ahead of time that he was going to bury the bodies underwater in the muddy ditch. This was thought-out while he “searched” the woods with Jacoby and Hicks Sr…and was confirmed when Hobbs ducked down the trail that led to the ditch at about 2:15 am. Hobbs came back and moved the bodies after Jacoby and Hicks went home.
    Hobbs’ pre-planning of how and where to move the bodies allowed him to complete the whole task in about 30 minutes. He would have been finished submerging the bodies and clothes by about 3:30 am. At this point, he was wet and muddy from the knees down… although he probably kept his jeans relatively dry by rolling up the pant-legs. Hobbs then walks back to his truck which was parked at the southeast corner of the Union 76 Parking Lot behind some abandoned semi trailers. He removes the muddy shoes, dries off with the towel, and puts on his dry socks and tennis shoes that he had been wearing earlier while searching with Jacoby. Hobbs had kept those dry shoes in the passenger-side floor board where Jacoby had been riding. This is probably where the Jacoby hair was transferred to Hobbs’ shoes.
    It’s about 3:45 am and Hobbs feels the need to make contact with someone to keep his alibi intact. He returns to his house around the time Pam and/or Hicks Sr return home (Marie Hicks is also at Hobbs house with Amanda). Hobbs can’t sit around the house looking unconcerned and he can’t force himself to pretend to search either. He starts thinking that he left some footprints around the ditch, getting more and more paranoid,….so he goes back to the woods to make sure everything’s clean. When he gets to the ditch it’s about 4:30 am. He approaches from the west bank trail and possibly notices that a shirt has floated to the surface on the east edge of the ditch near Michael’s body. Hobbs is wearing his clean shoes and doesn’t want to enter the ditch again, but he can’t reach the shirt from the west bank. Hobbs walks around to the east ledge by climbing down the steep bank and using the exposed root as a foothold. This is when he left the Jacoby hair. The shirt is floating about two feet below the edge of the bank so Hobbs finds a broken stick to retrieve the shirt. He then wraps the shirt around the stick and jabs it down into the muddy ditch-bottom being careful not to fall into the water. Before leaving the east bank ledge, Hobbs uses a wet cloth (maybe the towel he took from home, or some of the missing clothes) or a branch of leaves to “slick down” the bank and erase his prints. Hobbs leaves the dump-site for the last time shortly before 5 am. Then…at about 7 am….Hobbs and Hicks are on the pipe-bridge and Hobbs states that he thinks he sees blood in the water. This is when, IMO, Hobbs wants Hicks to investigate the ditch that led into the bayou (the discovery ditch)…and find the bodies.
    At 5:26 am…Boskey and Slater arrive at the McAuley Dead-end. They search around Mayfair and McAuley until 6:12 am, at which time they cross the pipe-bridge and enter RHH.

    Again, I am not saying that this happened in EXACTLY this way, I am just saying that it is possible based on the evidence. And, by the way, your statement of “The Nons have absolutely no problem with exact timelines and detailing exactly what happened. Your side does” was just proven wrong. I don’t have a problem with presenting a timeline and just for your FYI, I am not on a “side.” All I would like to do is create a plausible scenario based on the evidence and I think this one does. I am not a non and I am not a supporter. I am a well educated, concerned citizen who just also happens to be a mother who wants nothing more than to find justice for those three babies.

    1. I am sorry but you lost me at 7:00 pm at the manhole.

      Also, there were 3 knots tied differently which leads to believe there were 3 killers.

      1. I’m sorry u aren’t open enough to follow then. It is a plausible scenario and you’d admit that if u weren’t so hung up on the whole thrill kill satanic scenario.

        1. I like how you say “I don’t know that Hobbs did it” but then proceed to give a detailed minute by minute account of Hobbs’ murderous actions **thought process included**

          Like seriously, do you actually want someone to dispute/debate a fantastical theory of an overactive imagination?

          Betcha, if you really wanted to, you could come up with something similiar for our misunderstood hero.

          1. Eddievedderisafecklessycophant –
            She was challenged to give a timeline and kindly obliged. Like seriously.

        2. “9:10 pm…….Hobbs goes back by the manhole where the boys’ bodies are hidden. He’s seen by a black transient and fires a gunshot grazing the man’s arm. The man gets away and runs west through the muddy field. Hobbs throws the hand-gun into the bayou near the pipe-bridge.”

          You should have had the snapping turtles attacking the bojangles man instead of Hobbs. Much more believable!

          In light of the new evidence that exonerates the wm3, you need to fit in the naked wrestling match too.

    2. Thanks for the effort Info41o. Now that was a long post! You and Joey seem like reasonable people…even though we disagree.

      Where to start…..

      Ryan Byers said there were at least 13 people searching the hills at 9pm. And this is the environment that you have Terry Hobbs shooting and maiming a homeless black man,and then later throwing rocks trying to scare away other searchers?
      Just the 9pm timeline alone is so far-fetched it would make Terry Hobbs one of the luckiest* criminals in the history of the US to not be caught.

      * As opposed to the WM3 who my only scenario of their innocence involves two things.
      1) A police conspiracy to frame them
      2) They are some of the unluckiest suspects ever to have so many things go wrong for them. (No credible alibi for all three/ Getting caught lying about alibis / Missing Trenchcoat / Being seen at the scene 0f the crime muddied / Multiple confessions to random local people, police, prosecutors, attorney, softball games)

      Back to Hobbs and your timeline.

      You see to consistently invent reasons why Hobbs just has to make it back to the scene to do some various activity.
      Hobbs needs to change the kids clothes
      Hobbs is paranoid about evidence left behind
      Hobbs is paranoid about tracks

      This is problematic and unlikely for a myriad of reasons.

      You seem to find nefarious reasons for Hobbs acting certain ways. But the facts remain, throughout the day and night, he is constantly around other people (his daughter, David Jacoby, Pam, Pam’s Dad. You don’t have a motive, you don’t have a likely suspect in Hobbs, all you have is a slim timeline (if accurate) that Hobbs may have been able to pull of a complete hail mary crime without getting caught or arousing suspicion. Furthemore, your evidence and theory have not been presented in court, as I am sure a defense atty could do significant damage.

      Let me ask you this. If Hobbs really did do this. Why would he open himself up to be depositioned when he sued the Dixie Chicks. Just really arrogant..really dumb….or both? Because the criminal you’re describing in your timeline above is a mastermind of epic proportions to not be caught. The scenario you’re describing may happen in the movies, but I don’t think in real life.

      Your theory has Hobbs killing a child in anger, and then killing the other two neighborhood kids to not leave any witnesses. I do think history repeats itself. Has there ever been another case even remotely similar to the case you believe you have on Terry Hobbs?

      1. Question 1–I think he thought he’d be depositioned on the law suit issues: what was said, when, what he wanted, etc. I don’t think he realized he could be depositioned on the crime itself.

        Question 2–Police say that on Tuesday Plackowska fatally stabbed her 7-year-old son Justin 100 times and 5-year-old Olivia Dworakowski 50 times, according to the Chicago Tribune. At the time, Plackowska was babysitting her son and the girl at Olivia’s home in Naperville, about 30 miles west of Chicago, the newspaper reported. She allegedly told the kids to kneel and pray before stabbing them, NBCChicago.com reported, and also told her son that he was going to heaven.
        Prosecutors say both the kids’ throats were slashed, the Tribune reported.
        Prosecutors say Plackowska initially told police a stalker broke into the townhouse and committed the crimes, the Tribune reported.
        Plackowska later told police that she stabbed her son to death to hurt her husband who “didn’t appreciate her,” according to NBCChicago.com. She said she killed the girl and two dogs because they witnessed the crime, NBCChicago.com reported.

        1. Plackowska also killed the dogs to so they wouldn’t be “witnesses”.

          As I said before it takes a special kind of psycho to commit such an act on multiple children. I get the impression Plackowska would not have been able to turn off that level of psycho very easily after the event. The cops had absolutely no trouble realizing exactly what happened. That kind of crazy is not very good at fooling the cops.

          Despite the evidence I listed on how the WM3 have to be the unluckiest suspects ever, Echols is also the closest you will find to the perfect candidate on someone who would commit, or be involved, in such a heinous crime.
          Do you really not see the major psychological issues and the danger Echols was after reading exhibit 500?

          1. No, I can see it. I’ve said several times that I don’t know for sure what happened. You asked me for a timeline and I created one. Is it accurate? Who knows? Is it plausible? I think so. I think the biggest issue I have with the WM3 is that Jason just doesn’t fit to the crime. No witnesses, no evidence, no nothing! I think Damien is super intelligent–almost to genius level. Unfortunately, sometimes intelligence can be a disturbing thing. In this case, I can see suspicion about Damen. I can even imagine Jesse being around although it wouldn’t really make sense that Jesse was alone with Damien. But, I cannot fathom or see evidence of Jason at all.
            And– there is just something about Hobbs that I can’t shake. I think he is also the kind of asshole to do such a thing. So– this is why my very first post in this forum said, I don’t know if Hobbs did it but there is a lot of evidence connecting him that I don’t think can be ignored.

          2. Why would Hobbs remove the kids from the manhole? Was this a known place that the kids play in? Was this ever mentioned, or is there any documentation of the family members thinking to check this manhole that the kids supposedly love to play in on a frequent basis? Was Hobbs the ONLY family member that knew the kids played in the manhole, but assumed all the other family members knew this so he felt he had to move the kids? Am I missing something?

          3. Well appreciate your timeline. And I understand you are saying the windows in Hobbs timeline would make it possible for some of the events to transpire, and not that everything did transpire that way.

            I have only been following this case < 6 months, so I am no expert. But I am a big believer motive and character will strongly indicate who the murderer is. I've discussed in length why both point to Echol's guilt more than Hobbs. Furthermore, this was not a run of the mill murder out of anger/greed. As I also noted in the past, only the top echelon of pscyho would be able to commit this kind of deed, and be able to disassociate the deed with the rest of their life.
            Jesse's crying uncontrollably at night rings true. Hobbs on the other hand was around so many people that day, so often, it really would be amazing if he was the guilty one. I think Hannibal Lector could have pulled it off. Is Hobbs maybe a closeted serial killer?

            But it is true I can't rule out Hobbs. Maybe he is just a complete 100% top of the line sociopath. Maybe he was just really pissed at Pam and/or Stevie, and was hell bent on beating the living hell out (or even murdering) Stevie when he left Jacoby's at 7pm…. It's all not out of the realm of possibilities, but I have a long way to go before I think its Occams Razor.

            One question and comment

            Question – One thing that bugs me about Hobbs is the supposed fleeing of West Memphis after the event. I do not know if this is simply because Pam wanted to be with her family, or if Hobbs just packed up and unexpectedly left. the second scenario would be more troubling for someone that believes him unlikely to be the murderer. What is the best information available on Hobbs leaving WM after the murder?

            Comment – Echols may have above-average IQ, but I am not impressed and don't think he's anywhere near a "genius". I don't think he's anywhere near as smart as he thinks he is. A common trait of sociopaths is to overestimate their own talents/intelligence to a fault.

          4. Echols’ IQ is listed as between 100-110 on a document from his records, IIRC. Sounds about right. Ask the guy what rain smells like, or what magick is all about, and he’ll reel off a couple of sentences, I grant you. But, Startup Tech Conferences notwithstanding, I don’t believe we’ll be seeing think tanks knocking on his door anytime soon.

            His one impressive skill is an uncanny knack for self-promotion, self-aggrandizement to a receptive audience. (One thing people on either side of this might agree on, Damien Echols is really into the self, himself.) He believes in the whole fuzzy universe Oprah/Secret like stuff, about shaping your own reality — and I can’t blame him, as it’s totally worked.

            But put someone across from him who counters his stories with available, documented facts drawn from our consensual reality — a someone like Brent Davis, for instance; or even his family, who have said his bleak version of their visiting only a handful of times over the years is a blatant lie — and he is at a loss, and must dismiss such people entirely as “haters,” cutting them out of his life and encouraging followers to do the same. Fortunately for him, in the modern day publicity/celebrity game and the politics of access, he hasn’t needed to worry about much challenge at all…

            How much would you pay to see a Real journalist (relax, there, Erin Moriarty) sit across from Echols and ask him questions like these:

            15 Questions for Damien Echols
            https://www.facebook.com/events/400042053417380/permalink/411894058898846/

          5. You never can explain how Jessie Jr misses seeing Hobbs and Hobbs misses seeing Jessie Jr, when Hobbs admits to being just feet from the crime scene at 7 pm. oops.

          6. I don’t know much about WHY Hobbs left but I know he did exactly 2 weeks after the murders. I foud the following info in some of my research.

            Terry and Pamela were having difficulties in their marriage prior to 1993. They had separated for a time. Shortly after the murders, the Hobbs retreated to Pam’s family home in Blytheville, Arkansas. Two weeks after the murders, Terry left Pam to stay in Hardy, Arkansas, 120 miles from West Memphis. By doing this, Terry avoided being brought in for questioning by the police.   

             From the beginning, Pamela’s family accused him of the murders. According to Terry Hobbs, his brother-in-law, Jackie Hicks, Jr. had regularly threatened him for having killed Stevie. Their dispute came to a boil in November 1994 when Terry struck Pamela and Pamela called her family for help. Terry loaded his 357 Magnum with hollow point bullets. When Jackie Hicks, Jr. began fighting with Terry, Terry shot him in the gut. He survived for ten more years until he died from a clot released during a follow-up surgery. The Hicks blamed Hobbs for his death too.

             Terry Hobbs was arrested for drug possession in 2003. He was reported twice for abusing his daughter, Amanda. Pamela Hobbs took out a restraining order against him in 2005. In addition, Terry’s name was removed from his Stevie’s tombstone.

            http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

          7. “From the beginning Pamela’s family accused him of the murders.” I don’t know about that, though it’s possible. I can tell you that upon the release of the Three in 2011, Sheila Hicks was under the impression the WM3 were guilty. See quotations elsewhere on this page. The Hicks’ suspicion about TH didn’t seem to be voiced publicly until sometime after the divorce of Terry and Pam in 2004.

            The 1994 domestic quarrel — TH’s backhanding of Pam and subsequent shooting of Jackie Hicks Jr. — is described by TH in PL3 as related to Pam “kissing a Mexican” in their house, not related to the death of Stevie.

            Jackie Hicks, Jr. in a 1994 news report included in PL3: “[Terry] started tellin’ me it wasn’t none of my business, and then naturally I just got more upset and started hittin’ him. And I took him to the ground and next thing I know, he shot me.”

            Jackie, a physically much bigger guy than Terry, admits he started the fight by hitting Terry and tackling him. That he was shot for his efforts is unfortunate, but surely TH is not alone in blame. The whole incident could have been avoided had father and brother not entered the situation with a readiness to assault TH, who was AFAIK not brought up on charges for the shooting.

            That Jivepuppi entry also mentions TH having been “reported twice for abusing Amanda.” I’d be curious to see such reports as it would be news to me, that there are any hospital or child services records related to alleged child abuse.

            By the way, this statement from Jivepuppi well indicates that page’s bias: “Is it possible Terry Hobbs is not guilty? The cumulative damning statements and physical evidence regarding Terry Hobbs make it seem that it is impossible that he was not responsible for the murders…” Mm hmm. Riiiight…. that’s jive talkin’.

          8. Jack, regarding Terry Hobbs leaving Pam after the murders. Just going from memory here, but he didn’t “flee”. IIRC, Terry said he had to get away from Pam’s craziness for awhile. From what we’ve seen of Pam (and her family), can’t say I blame him. (I’ve forgotten where he went, but it wasn’t far).

            Many, many marriages founder when a child dies, and the parents may take out their grief/anger on each other. In some cases, the couple separates, cools off, and reunites. I believe that’s what happened here.

          9. Actually, I have seen “outtakes” somewhere from PL1. In the interview where Pam is talking about Stevie’s boy scout bandana and she’s wearing the red dress, she also talks about she and Terry already being separated at that point. I don’t think many people knew that because they went through the trial together.
            Jack,
            I never meant to insinuate the following from your post:
            “The 1994 domestic quarrel — TH’s backhanding of Pam and subsequent shooting of Jackie Hicks Jr. — is described by TH in PL3 as related to Pam “kissing a Mexican” in their house, not related to the death of Stevie.”
            I don’t think he was hitting Pam because of Stevie. He was, in fact, hitting her for the “Mexican” incident. I just don’t think its OK for him to hit her for any reason. I also think this shows that he is capable of violence. Does it make him a murderer? Not necessarily but people on here say a lot that “Terry Hobbs had no prior history of violence” and that is just not true. Also, I agree with the fact that he was attacked by Hicks Sr. and Jr. But, I think they came after him because he hit Pam AND they were upset about their suspicions of his involvement with Stevie. They were bigger than him, yes, but he was bigger than Pam! I think it’s a case where a Daddy was trying to protect his daughter. It’s also very “Southern” for a Dad to want to show up and kick the ass of the man that beat or hit his daughter. The problem I have with that particular incident is WHY did TH have a gun on him at that very time to began with? Does one usually just carry a gun around on them around their house? Also, he WAS arrested and had charges brought against him for the shooting. He did some jail time although it wasn’t long, I don’t think.

          10. Mary,
            He went to Hardy, which is 2 hours from West Memphis. AND–here’s the thing: I could murder someone and then say, “You know, I just need to go to California for a while to clear my head. Everyone is so concerned about this around here and all it does is remind me and I’m just so so sad and I need to get away for a while to get myself together.” It sounds admirable but in reality, I would be “fleeing.”
            I don’t think that one excuse from him justifies his leaving or excuses him from suspicion.
            On the other hand, I agree with you on your second paragraph. I think that is entirely possible.

            Another subject:
            Has anyone seen the clip in PL1 when they announce Jesse being guilty that Hobbs takes this huge gulp and swallows as if relieved? Now, one could argue that he was just glad the murderer that he thought killed Stevie was convicted. But, one could also argue that he was relieved because he was off the hook. I bring this up because his reaction was so different than all the other parents’ reactions. Pam cried. Mark hung his head and shook it. The Moore’s hugged each other and cried. Melissa wiped a tear with a kleenex. (All SAD reactions) Terry Hobbs looked around shifty like and swallowed so hard you see his Adam’s Apple protrude. ha This just struck me as odd.

          11. Info, I’ve read from supporters the “Mexican” Incident preceded Stevie’s murder and was actually a motive for it as it was Hobbs way to get “even”.

            I had to admit, it wasn’t the greatest motive, but it would have been something at least. If the “Mexican” Incident was well after the murders….oh well, there goes one of the only lucid motives one might accuse TH of having.

            Furthermore, the backhand against Pam after finding out she cheated on him might not be good. But if that is the only claim of physical abuse against Pam, let’s just say I’m not blown away with horror.

            From a man that supporters claim could cold bloodedly murdered three children in a period of 45 minutes, and then calmly went back to family and friends minutes later as if nothing had happened…I just gotta say I would expect a HELL of ALOT more from a top of the line sociopath after the “Mexican” incident than just a backhand.

            Regarding the gulp, I didn’t see it. But, I don’t its possible to determine the difference between relief of guilty conviction or relief that you will somehow not be prosecuted in the future.

    3. I am not a citizen, but it does concern me greatly but I am absolutely convince that Echols is the principle murderer and believe the other two were there as followers of the sick evil Echols. Why do I have no doubts ?.. much evidence I have read in Callahan, plus the fact that Echols is a known liar and a false accuser of others. Why does echols continually change his story.. because he KNOWS he is guilty but being a pscycopath without a conscience he can lie with a straight face.

      I hope you can one day close the book on this case and realise what I have come to realise.. he almost had me fooled till half way through the first documentary where his utterly bizarre behaviour and comments sent alarm bells ringing, I immediately started searching the internet to find out more about Echols and it really didn’t take me long to realise Echols was not just a child killer but a liar with zero conscience and as evil and manipulative as anyone in history, he duped the gullible doco makers and thousands of others into believing him, even marrying a supporter. I am forever concerned primarily for the three dead boys. Hobbs as the murderer is a complete red herring, Echols is guilty.

    1. Unlike Mark Byers who I think is a lowlife of epic proportions, I have a significant amount of sympathy for Pam. But she is simply not credible.

      1. A part of me is concerned that Pam is being used here. Just one of the many reasons I’m annoyed by this situation.

      2. Who knows, maybe this is enough to make her the supporters next suspect. For the supporters i think the criteria is anything bad in the past and the possibility that the person owns or has owned a knife

      3. Byers was never the killer despite some very bizarre behaviour, but he is also a massive victim who has undergone a trauma I would never wish upon anyone except of course a bottom feeder like the child killer ECHOLS. I do think Byers has lost the plot ever since they found out the boys were murdered, before that day the man had obvious problems and he has lost a lot of respect for becoming a WM3 “supporter”. His sanity is critical, I grant that but he in no way compares in the disgust rating compared to a child killer. Echols outdid Jack The Ripper.

  27. The only manhole involved in this case is Damien’s anus resembled one after getting buttfucked by his boyfriend in the cell next to his.

  28. At the end of PL1 Echols says the two things that can hurt him most are :
    1-the softballgirls
    2- that guy that was in prison with Jason ( Michael Carson)

    Now why would he say that?
    Because he knows both accounts are true. He doesn’t question whether Jason did confess to Carson, because the only thing he can think of as a guilty person is that Carsons testimony is true because of the facts he describes.

    If Echols was innocent and nothing of it never happened he most certainly would have said that the Carson statement was ridiculous. But now i think he only got mad at Jason for being so stupid to confess to Carson.

    And for the softballgirls the same. Echols only thinks it can hurt his case BECAUSE IT’S TRUE.

    Makes you wonder doesn’t it? So he had killed 3 boys and was going to kill 2 more and he had already 1 picked out.

    I now even think that Echols did not care much whether he would be convicted or not and therefore i think that when he had been found innocent he would eventually have completed his murderous intentions.

    1. Both Carson and the softball girls have recanted their testimony. I think Damien is super intelligent. Not always smart, mind you, but intelligent. He watched the testimony and probably thought,”they really don’t have anything so if something is gonna hurt us, it has to be testimony of those that say we confessed.”

      1. Actually, the softball girls did not recant their testimony.

        Please see David’s post on this.

        “WM3 supporters often claim that the softball girls and Donna Medford later recanted. This is false. Some supporters point to this 2007 affidavit by Donna Medford (scroll down to Exhibit RR) as a recantation. It’s not. Donna Medford in 2007 repeated and affirmed exactly what she said in June 1993 and March 1994.

        In recent years, Echols has changed his story. He now admits he probably did brag about the killings at the softball park, but insists “I might have said it joking around” and “it would have been like a joke”.”

        1. {{ “”In recent years, Echols has changed his story. He now admits he probably did brag about the killings at the softball park, but insists “I might have said it joking around” and “it would have been like a joke”.” “”” }}

          This is evidence right here that Echols is a sociopathic homicidal sadistic scum, it fits that he would use the word “joke” here. Other proopf is his , “I am a god and Children will be afraid that Damien is under the bed”… oh come on, why cant these Echols lovers see the proof in the pudding, he is the creepiest dude I have ever seen.

      2. Both Carson and

        Carson stood by his story for 16 years despite constant harrassment. He recanted for a movie, which may or may not have paid him. That doesn’t mean much in my book.

        the softball girls have recanted

        I’ve heard supporters say this a million times, and no one has ever offered evidence or a citation.

        1. The softball girls did not recant. That misunderstanding has something to do with Ellington’s idiocy.

          I’m not sure, however, where you figure Carson was dealing with constant harrassment, David. Tell me one person who even tracked him down until Amy Berg et al. lol.

          1. Like I realize he gave a statement to the press in 1994, but NO ONE was harrassing Carson after that. Cause I can pretty much guarantee you that no one could even find him. 😉

  29. I would just like to point out, since it seemed to me people were making fun of the actual Defense teams because of this ludicrous crap, that Swindle is not associated with JJ&D or their Defense teams in any way. Cause I’m getting a little tired of watching people commenting who don’t seem to grasp the situation surrounding these ridiculous affidavits. 🙂

    1. yes. This was about Pam Hicks and Mark Byers versus the WMPD alleging they did not investigate the current “obvious”leads. Leveritt and Baldwin were there and even Baldwin seems to have said it was all nonsense and triple hearsay or something like that. Mark Byers of course thought otherwise, and so does Pam Hicks i’m sure. But you’re right.. i think some here don’t even know about Swindle and just don’t make a distinction between the parties.

      1. Honestly, there was a point at the beginning where this made sense to me. Like I thought it was Pam trying to make sure the evidence was still there and they weren’t getting rid of it or lost it or something. Somewhere along the line, it all hit the level of crazy, and what made sense became secondary (or not even important). I don’t even get it. It bugs me on so many levels.

    1. I like how that article mentions evidence pointing to new possible suspects. If they dug a bit they would see the ‘new evidence’ is about as credible as a bigfoot sighting.

  30. BTW — I’m not implying that if someone is gay or bi-sexual than it equates them with being a psycho murderer.

    I’m referring to a “motive” to hide that aspect of their life — especially if they happen to be someone who claims to be a macho hetrosexual dude.

    Damien tried to downplay his general doucheness and interest in occult dabbling because he knew it would hurt his case. It didn’t work. If we believe Jessie’s confessions, than we know that the killings were mostly done by Jason and that any organized devil cult shit was almost non-existent. There is no cult.

    Whatever happened in those woods seems to have happened quickly and without thought — a gut reaction of drunk dirt-bag kids on a whim, or some the angry gut reaction of older males fearing they’ll be revealed?

    This website is the only place that lets people discuss this case without being edited. This is probably the place that will help people get to the truth — whatever it might turn out to be.

    This case is heartbreaking and baffling on many levels. Let’s hope it comes to an end soon.

    Remember this: Someone knows who killed those three little guys. They can’t outrun this much longer.

    1. The case against Echols and Baldwin was not that it was a satanic ritual, but that it was committed by two deranged individuals who had an obsession with the occult. I believe the words used in their trial were “hints of occultism.”

    2. No, the homosexual thing doesnt work on Hobbs here, so lets say he was discovered “doing it” with another bloke and he decides, “oh shit, I have to kill the 3 little uns”. Now why would that guy in that scenario decide, “oh hell why not cut off one of the boys privates and frame that weird local kid who wears black stuff”. The whole scenario is insane, this was a thrill kill that teenagers on rare occasions commit on little kids.. There is the very famous murder of a 10 year old boy by young teenagers in Britain years ago and some of that crime is eerily like that one. Possibly Echols knew of that crime (it was years ago and I am not at all sure if that murder was before or after the WM3 but it’s not important, it just reminds me of that horrendous murder.).

      1. The James burger case was in February 1993 world wide news. It would have even have reached Arkansas. A mere 3 months passes and the RRH murders occur. I think Echols liked the notoriety of the perpetrators of this sick case and tried to emulate it.

  31. Are Bennie Guy and Billy Stewart getting reductions in their jail time for these statements? Will they get reward money? What is their motive?

    Is this all part of a complicated defense strategy to force a new trial and therefore reopen the case?

  32. Obviously these two guys serving long prison terms have nothing to lose — I’m just trying to figure out what they gain.

    According to them, the motive for murder is what exactly? Both elude to some type of sexual event just before the boys arrive on scene. Here are those excerpts:

    BILLY STEWERT’S statement:

    71. Then Mr. Hobbs and Mr. Jacoby offered more marijuana and whiskey to Buddy
    and L G, which Buddy and L G accepted.

    72. When describing the smoking and drinking, Buddy dropped his eyes and paused
    as if he was ashamed. He would no longer make eye-contact.

    73. Buddy would not have been ashamed discussing marijuana or whiskey, which led
    me to understand that there was more going on between the boys and the men than what Buddy had just told me.

    BENNIE GUY’S statement:

    86. L G said that all four were sitting close together smoking and drinking when just
    before the sun started to set, the three boys on two bicycles surprised them.

    (guessing the words “see “sitting close together” is meant to imply something?)

    Later in the statement it is implied that Jacoby cut his knee as if he was not wearing pants?

    Why be so vague about something so odd? Why wait 20 years for something so crucial?

    I’m still thinking there’s something here — LG Hollingsworth knew something. That can’t be brushed aside.

    That being said, this whole saga is starting to shape like the ending to the 1976 film “Ode to Billy Joe”

    PLOT TWIST SPOILER FOR “ODE TO BILLY JOE: “It turns out that in his inebriated state, he (BILLY JOE) had sex with another man, later revealed to be his sawmill boss, Dewey Barksdale (James Best). After disappearing for days, he returns to bid an enigmatic goodbye to Bobbie Lee. Overcome with guilt, Billy Joe subsequently kills himself by jumping off the bridge spanning the Tallahatchie River. In the film’s final scene, Bobbie Lee meets Dewey on the bridge as she is leaving town, and he guiltily confesses to her that he was the man. She tells Barksdale, who is on his way to her house to confess to her father, that the town already suspects that she is carrying Billy Joe’s baby and that it would do no good for Barksdale to confess now. Agreeing with the girl’s logic, Barksdale offers Bobbie Lee a ride to the bus station, which she courteously accepts.”

  33. I see no supporter even touches the blue candle wax and fibers found on the boys consistent with fibers from Baldwin and Echols clothing. All any of you do is hypocritically rail nonsense about Terry Hobbs to prove your heroes are innocent. They also gloss over blood found on Echols necklace which possibly has Stevie Branch’s blood on it….it being consistent with 11% of the population. And all the supporters can do is cry Hobbs hair. Which is a non-issue considering their children were all best friends. Recently a supporter objected to being termed murder groupies. OK. But what you have done is nothing short of an Old Testament type of abomination. You and your I’ll informed band wagoning comrades have released 3 vicious child murderers. Don’t think for a second that the blood is not on your hands and you will not be held accountable….God can’t be argued with by a highly skilled defense team.

    1. Darren,

      I find the blood on the pendant to be the strongest/oddest piece of evidence — and probably something that should have been explored at trial. I guess that would have been on the top of the prosecutors list during a new trial. There’s a clip or out take from Paradise Lost regarding the pendant and why they didn’t peruse it. Anyone have access to that clip?

      The fibers seem so to be too broad, common. As for the candle wax, I have a question. Is the implication that a candle was “used during a ceremony or spell at the murder site?” As in, Damien lit a candle at the scene and wax fell on the victim(s)?

      There are dozens of witness statements froM the files where people discuss cults and devil worshiping in West Memphis as if it was happening all the time. However, I don’t know if it’s ever been established as verified — it seems like people are saying “well I heard there was this kinda stuff going on… so and so said his cousin’s friends heard that someone saw someone saying some devil stuff…”

      Damien was definitely into reading this stuff. Wanted to be on the darkside, etc. Guy had EVIL tattooed on knuckles and a pentagram on chest — but was there a full-on sacrifice? I never got the feeling that there were any real cult meetings or photographs in briefcases, etc.

  34. I think the candle wax is indicative of his having had the contact with the boys. I don’t think the wax was from a satanic ritual or anything along those lines. Like fiber evidence, it just strongly implies that yes, Echols was present during the last moments of the boys lives. Obviously, he should have had minimal prior contact with the three.

    1. Thanks, Darren. When I read anything from this case and the trials I’m always careful to consider if the evidence is being considered in conjunction with cult activity. Candle wax by itself is just that – wax. But if it could be tied conclusively to the crime scene, clothing and Echols bedroom, that’s pretty strong.

      We know that the defense seemed to think — certainly for months — that their clients were guilty — but why? Did they believe in a “cult”?

      The prosecutors might have said publicly that this case wasn’t truly about cults, but privately, such as when then confronted William Jones regarding his decision not to testify, they would say things like: “has Lax threatened the send the cult after you?” — and / or “don’t worry, the cult can’t get you.” Confusing.

      1. when then confronted William Jones regarding his decision not to testify, they would say things like: “has Lax threatened the send the cult after you?” — and / or “don’t worry, the cult can’t get you.”

        Those quotes come from Cheryl Aycock (Inquisitor Inc employee) quoted by Mara Leveritt. Maybe Fogleman and Davis said that, maybe not. Aycock and Leveritt both had good reason to depict Fogleman and Davis in a bad light.

        Fogleman and Davis might have asked William Jones if he was afraid of retaliation if he testified. That would have been reasonable. Jones was slated to testify against Jessie Misskelley, who had a lot of tough and loyal friends in the trailer parks. Jones had very good reason to believe he would get his ass kicked if he testified against Misskelley.

        Buddy Lucas said as much near the end of his 10/14/93 interview with WMPD:

        RIDGE: Were you just scared of us or scared you were hurting Jessie, what were you scared of?
        LUCAS: The reason i didn’t come uh, then before he told you all everything, because I was afraid if I did that he would have somebody hurt me
        RIDGE: You were afraid Jessie would have somebody to hurt you?
        LUCAS: Yes sir, he knows a lot of people, that I don’t know. I’m afraid he would have somebody hurt me and everything.

        Fogleman told Lucas’s mom that Buddy Lucas told him the same thing that day: “[Buddy] told me that the reason he had never told what he ended up telling them was because that he was afraid of Jessie’s friends, Dennis Carter and Dino Perfetti”.

  35. The days after the murders, jessie has a rough time. he’s crying a lot but after some time the first one the liyyle dipshit forgives is himself. At the same time in his mind he blames D&J more. he was drunk and they took advantage of him and made him do it.

    On 6-3 jessie doesn’t want to confess but he says some stupid things and gets entangled in his own lies. Getting sick of that he wants to confess from then on.let’s get this over with.

    Stidham eventually comes up with the false confession defense. jessie thinks it’s bullshit but hey you’re the attorney let’s give it a shot.

    4-2-1994 jessie is convicted and sentenced. Well..that didn’t work out. Now i have a lifesentence + 40 years and everybody thinks i’m retarded. Thanks Dan.I better confess and have something done about it. my daddy was right; you should always tell the truth. But what will he think of me when he hears the real truth?

    Now jessie wants to take the stand in the Echols/Baldwin trial and have something done about it. because no way he is going to spend his life in prison and let J&D get away with it.

    On the stand jessie thinks he will be able to say his confession was true and the coerced-confession-defense was a load of crap, but his attorney told him it was the only way to get him of the hook and that’s why he gave it a shot.

    But jessie is told of course that if he says all that, his own future appeals will have no chance whatsoever. ( and Stidham will be out of a job because no way he is gonna be able to practice law after this)
    And under cross-examination jessie will definitively fall apart.

    My point: Everything turned out well

    1- Jessie is walking free
    2-His Daddy thinks he’s innocent
    3- Stidham is still practicing law.

    1. Agreed, Stidham was vindicated when his client walked free after 18 years without having to allocute. Whether the confession was true or false, coerced or voluntary, the defense eventually proved successful.

    2. I’m pretty much on board with that narrative, Frank. I suspect that, post-conviction, Jessie refrained from taking the stand against his buddies for a few reasons:

      (1) Stidham (and perhaps his Dad) advised that the best hope for Jessie was to try to overturn the conviction on appeal. As you point out, testifying would nix any chance of that.

      (2) A demonstrated aversion to confessing in front of family. In June of 1993 Jessie was maintaining guilt to Stidham. However, during a visit from his Dad, by Dan’s account Jessie leaped up from his seat and cried out to his pop how he hadn’t done it! — which confounded and angered Stidham in that moment. This outburst was evidently an anomaly along the summer timeline, where Jessie continued to confess privately to Stidham through at last September. (We have such documented confessions from June and August 1993.) Further re: Jessie’s family, remember how his beloved stepmother Shelbia interviewed to camera in PL1, IIRC, how heartbroken she would be if Jessie turned out to be part of this. (Notable too was Lee Rush, Jessie Sr.’s girlfriend at the time, saying that if Jessie was part of this, she would advise cutting him off entirely.) It’s my sense that, in Jessie’s mind, his confessing to police, defense attorneys and prosecutors was a far cry from confessing his role in public (live, not prerecorded) in front of family and friends.

      (3) A general reluctance to public speaking. Jessie bailed on both PL3 screenings in Oct 2010, due to discomfort with the format, despite being surrounded by supporters.

      (4) Snitches get stitches, and child murderers aren’t looked upon well in prison. It’s possible that the idea of further cementing status as a snitch and child killer via court testimony would not bode well for his prison stay.

    1. Frank, your recap of Jessie’s defense strategy is pretty clear and persuasive. (There is also some pretty shady stuff behind the scenes as well, which we all know)

      I just looked at Jessie’s portion of Paradise Lost 3 to see what his actual quote was regarding his own guilt or innocence: Here is what he says 31 minutes into film:

      “I said what the police wanted me to say… that’s the reason why I said things.” “Was it true? No, it was not true. Did I run anybody down? No, I did not. I didn’t kill nobody. I have nothing to hide. I have nothing to be ashamed of.”

      One could argue that he is speaking strictly for “himself” and therefore he feels technically honest — I’m guessing? Anyone else feel that he is choosing his words very carefully?

      On a side note. I know these kids were young and in a very difficult situation, but how PASSIVE do you have to be to not be able to convince your own attorney that you are innocent of something so horrific? Who rolls over and gives up so easy?

      I hate this case. It’s like both sides are being just vague enough to drive me insane!!!

      1. yes he chooses his words carefully. he now knows that that’s the words that got him out of jail and he knows that’s the words he will have to remember from now on to keep him out of jail. it’s his private little mantra.

        1. “He went to Hardy, which is 2 hours from West Memphis.”

          Oh, then he was definitely fleeing from the police. The cops would never find him two whole hours away 😉

  36. Mary…better put your comment at the appropriate place . i guess you meant it as an answere to a post of info 411. just click on REPLY under THAT post and give your comment. Now placed after 10 other comments and other posts it doesn’t seem to make any sense.
    I got it though….made the same mistake myself when posting here for the first time.

    1. That’s another matter of concern yes.

      I’m pretty sure Echols would do very good here in Holland lecturing universitystudents.
      We already had Woopy Goldberg over and the audience went wild with enthusiasm about her Oprah-Crap, like “you’re no longer kids anymore, it’s now up to you to make this world a better place”

      In my opinion we are very biased here. We very much like to believe the American justice system is inferior to ours and therefore i think Echols would be welcomed with open arms as a victim of that inferior system.
      In our system we have NO jury and no deathpenalty. The absence of a jury is made -up for by relying very much upon Expert-testimony. the more degrees you have the more believable you are.There’s little notion here that expert-witnesses are making their expert-testimony into a career.
      thinking about Griffith and Offshe i think if Echols would ever prepare for a speach he could make that advantage to work well for him.

    2. I just knew the dog would write a book, it truly fits the profile of a truly evil criminal sociopath or maybe a Psycopath who has NO CONSCIENCE, this Echols is totally vile and a sub-human liar. ( I truly hate to use the word sub-human because eternally evil Hitler used it a lot but in the case of Echols it truly fits, a man with zero conscience is truly not fit to live, Echols is the ultimate sadist). He will make a lot of money from his BOOK OF LIES and that is nothing less than trampling on the memory of three very little boys, since the moment he decided to kill the boys Echols has never stopped torturing those poor children, they died in the most unspeakable horror imaginable, YET even in death this animal is still hurting them. I have truly discovered the full emotion we dislike the most, HATE !!! and I have never hated like I hate Echols, never, it seems I too have become a ( mini ) victim of Damien the Child torturer.

  37. BTW Baldwin has been in Amsterdam at the IDFA filmfestival screening of PL3.
    he was interviewed by the “Volkskrant”one of our leading newspapers.
    There are 2 qoutations in the article:

    1-he wasn’t in the neighboorhood of the murders.”I WAS AT SCHOOL”
    2-“in every prison i was, i was called to the office of the director. they all told me they thought i was innocent but they couldn’t do anything about it because of their careers.”

    Like Echols, Baldwin seems to have a good imagination too.

    1. Are they really that bold to think that they can lie with impunity without any legitimate journalists challenging them?

      It’s disgusting. If they are really innocent (yeah right), they sure do lie a lot.

      1. Is it too late for the families to file a civil suit against Echols? I would say they would win – they have already been convicted and the burden of proof is less in a civil case than criminal. They could collect money from Echols like the Goldman’s did to OJ. It makes me sick for him to be profiting from such a horrible crime.

    2. Please leave a comment correcting that paper’s article. Baldwin never claimed ‘he was at school’ during the trial, and in fact no alibi was presented as far as I know.

      1. I tried and will try again. error after errormessage. No comments on that article thusfar btw.
        besides the quotes it’s all supporters talk again. 12 hour interrogation of Misskelley, an IQ of 70 and BITEMARKS suggested cultsacrafice. Berlinger saying jason couldn’t have done this with his skinny arms. And of course ALL the families of the victims are now sided with the WM3.

        And we can’t expect Mr. Moore to write a letter to every newspaper that’s got it wrong, do we? It’s a disgrace.

        1. Not the same article but just some page with what’s on TV.
          ” PL3 …….In this last of three documentaries we see how the WM3 after 18 years are declared innocent”.

          It just never stops.

  38. Put a fork in the WM3 supporter movement. Even those cretins have to realize these three bastards murdered the children at this point. Interesting that Echols immediately embraced this bizarre theory. Speaks volumes.

    Shark, meet jump.

  39. let’s put Berlinger and Sinofsky on trial.

    15 minutes in PL2 written on the screen

    Misskelley, whose IQ is 72,
    was questioned for over 12 hours
    without legal representation or
    access to his family.

    Only the last 45 minutes
    of the interrogation were
    actually recorded.

    A blatant lie. And Berlinger and Sinofsky know it. And they also know the impact of a written text on the screen. That’s what they learn at the filmacademy.
    Just think what’s written there. So they interrogated Misskelley for 11 hours and 15 minutes and then put the taperecorder on.

    1. They also didn’t bother to explain the fact that Mark Byers teeth were gone for perfectly understandable reasons before Brent Turvey showed up on the scene to start the bite marks nonsense, and rather chose to portray the illusion that Byers might have got his teeth removed because bite marks were found on the victims. Of course they engaged in all sorts of other manipulation to cast suspicion on Byers and create the illusion of reasonable doubt for the convicted, and have since moved on to doing the same against Terry Hobbs.

      Then there’s all the smoke and mirrors they put up to obscure Echols’ criminal and psychological history, and all sorts of other manipulation throughout their movies. Granted, I suspect they actually believe the convicted are innocent, but only because they’re not honest with themselves, and they obviously have little qualms with being dishonest to others.

      1. When supporters are talking about the supposed Terry Hobbs’ hair found in one of the knotts, they just dismiss the fibers found at the crimescene supposed from Echols’ and Baldwin’s homes.

        But it isn’t the fibers OR the hair, no, it is the fibers AND the hair.

        And it’s a lot easier to dismiss the hair as secondary transfer if from Hobbs at all than it is to explain away the microscopal similar fibers from Echols’and Baldwin’s homes

        1. I think Berlinger and Sinofsky created a completely seperate battlefield. Supporters seeking the truth. Sure..and nothing but speculation based on ignorance and lies comes from them.
          They just create what they’re claiming to fight.

          As to that, PL2 was an eyeopener for me.

        2. Well some supporters will defer to experts regarding the fiber evidence, but experts simply making assertions while never coming anywhere close to substantiating them. As for hairs, there was at least one hair found to be microscopically similar to samples Baldwin, and a couple microscopically similar to samples Baldwin and Echols, as is noted on page 10 of Echols’ 2002 motion for DNA testing. From what I’ve seen, the defense never specified if DNA testing was accomplished on those particular hairs, but only vaguely noted that three hairs which they tested had failed to provide usable results.

          1. “As for hairs, there was at least one hair found to be microscopically similar to samples Baldwin…”

            I’ve never heard of these. Thanks.

            It is amazing, and also disheartening, to realize just how much biased documentary TV writers have been able to control the conversation.

          2. For clarification sake I meant to say there was at least one hair found to be microscopically similar to samples from Baldwin, and a couple microscopically similar to samples from Echols”. Please pardon my dyslexia, it makes proofreading rephrased statements rather difficult.

            And yeah, it’s even more disheartening that movies such as the ones regarding this case are even called documentaries. In reality they are character studies, fictional narratives woven largely from opinions, whereas actual documentaries are primarily based in fact. Orwell warned us all, but few have bothered to listen.

        3. Some supporters defer to experts regrading the fiber evidence, but experts simply making assertions rather than actually substantiating their arguments. As for hairs, at least one hair was found to be microscopically similar to samples taken for Baldwin, and two similarly so for Echols, and I’ve yet to see the defense specify if an DNA testing was accomplished on those particular hairs.

          I’d attempted to submit a slight longer version of this post with a link to a document with more details on the aforementioned hairs, but it failed to go through. So, I’ll just say that if you google for “motion for forensic dna testing” along with Echols’ name, you’ll find the relevant details on page 10.

          1. Fair enough, and thanks for retrieving my first attempt from the spam filter. For future reference: are plain text links less likely to get filtered, or is there any discernible rhyme or reason to what legitimate links won’t get caught up in the filter?

    2. To all:

      Today is the first day of a Kickstarter campaign intended to raise money for post-production costs related to my documentary about the West Memphis Three. You can obtain more information here:

      http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1102312416/abomination-a-film-by-william-ramsey

      The film is currently in post-production. As 150 minutes of material has already been compiled, all that is needed are some additional funds to complete the project. Please help if you are able.
      If I can surpass the amount I’m looking for, I’d like to add an additional disc to the DVD case with visual information on the following provisional topics:

      Mara Leveritt and the Devil’s Knot: Grinding A Dull Axe;
      The Defense Rests: Obfuscation and Omissions in all Defense arguments;
      Fools on Parade: Hollywood and journalistic dupes, etc.

      I also just completed a small article about a data point many researchers have missed—the pentagram tattoo on the chest of Damien Echols. See here:

      occult911.wordpress.com

      Thank you!!

    1. Pam Hobbs has been manipulated into suspecting her ex-husband and doubting the guilt of the convicted, but I’ve never see her go so far as to proclaim the three are innocent like Byers does.

      1. Pam has, I believe, repeatedly professed to believing that the WM3 are innocent. At one point she met with Echols at some public event (perhaps Sundance, 2012?), embraced him, and later reported that from this encounter she could discern he had not been involved.

        1. Pam’s discernment isn’t the greatest. Based on the WM3 supporters, her husband is the killer (poor discernment). Based on the nons, she is hugging her son’s killer and professing his non-involvement. Either way, she isn’t a person that I would trust with my children.

          1. Yeah I’ve never bought into the “I met him, so I know he didn’t do this” suggestions. Are we to believe Joe Berlinger, Eddie Vedder and Pam Hicks have high-powered lie detectors the rest of us lack, or is it possible they were snowed by a documented and practiced liar…?

          2. yes..just as we are to believe Gary Gitchel has an over active imagination according to Echols. as i said earlier, i think the supporters are fighting their own phantoms now.

  40. In PL3 jessie tells his version of his arrest on 6-3 and that it was all about the reward money. To me it’s just another bullshitstory.

    Jessie didn’t go to the police on his own to apply for the rewardmoney ( i saw that suggestion in a 50 minute documentary recommended here by a supporter ) If he had nothing to do with the murders my guess is he would have given it a shot, just like so many other innocent but greedy moneyhunters at that time.

    Mike Allen was assigned that day to question him. Being guilty no way jessie was ever gonna try to claim the reward money. Now a month after the murders he was just starting to have good hopes all the attention would blow over in another month.

    Now let’s say Mike Allen indeed mentioned the money when he visited jessie.

    Of course the little childmurderer acted all nonchalant and said he could use that money to buy his daddy a new truck haha ( sweatsweat)

    1. In August of 1993, Jessie was still maintaining his guilt to Stidham, who asked him point blank if his statement to police was freely given, without threats from police, and without any promises of benefit or reward. Jessie confirms that no such threats or promises were made. Seems it would have been a opportune time to tell Dan “I was thinking about the reward money and what I could get with it” but of course he didn’t. At that point he was still taking responsibility for what he’d said, and the helpful excuse-meisters hadn’t yet gotten to him.

      1. It’s this point in time where I think it takes a huge leap of faith to believe that Jessie either a.)truly thought Stidham was just another police officer, i.e. he had to continue to keep his lie going in order to get reward money, or b.)he was coerced so bad into making a confession that he essentially remained hypnotized, for a couple of months, into thinking he really was a part of the murders before he snapped out of it and realized he wasn’t. Big big leap of faith to believe and run with either of those scenarios.

        1. Yep…both scenarios are ridiculous.

          BTW… i’ve got the feeling what the supporters also try…is turning this into something like the zodiac-murders mystery….but

          IT’S NOT!

          On May the fifth 1993 Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley tortured and murdered 3 eight year old boys. Christopher Byers, Michael Moore and Stevie Branch.

        2. How about C) Jessie Misskelley Jr is a liar and the only way to make an educated guess on when he is telling the truth is to compare his statements with known facts – not trying to guess and explain his motives. In that case, it is the prosecution with the problem. 😉

          1. You basically just described his trial – and the prosecution overcame that problem quite nicely.

          2. But why was he lying? What was his motive to lie? Reward Money? Remember, the police picked him up for questioning, not the other way around.

          3. The problem presented here is that Misskelley himself doesn’t make a lot of sense. For instance, when Misskelley was still claiming guilt and trying to explain descrepencies in his original statement, he claimed he was trying to trick police to see what they really knew. Okayyy, so even if you read that statement thinking he is guilty and thinking he is fishing, he is an outrageous idiot. It just makes no sense… unless you consider Misskelley is of really low intelligence. Then, that absurd attempt at fishing doesn’t seem so outrageous. Dumb, but expected. From an innocence perspective, I think the defense tried to make JM more sympathetic than he was and exaggerated coersion. Years after he was convicted, and when he was being assessed for appeal, JM stated he thought Baldwin and Echols were guilty and wanted them convicted. Is it possible JM had a slimey three-pronged motive to lie– to escape police pressure (pressure that is common and justified, by the way), to help convict two child killers, and to collect an award? Yes, it is. It is also possible he was pissed and vengeful post-conviction as well has trying to gain favor again. It is also possible he is guilty. Just consider that judging JM’s motives requires a bit of uh, lowered intelligence and because of that, the conclusion could initially seem like a stretch if measured against your own judgement.

          4. The point this website is trying to make is that you have a kid that confessed 6 times to a host of different people. It takes a big leap of faith to believe that he would be lying. Is it possible he’s lying? Sure. But common sense/statistics say he probably isn’t. He was questioned for 2 hours, went and got permission to take a lie detector, failed said lie detector, questioned for another 2 hours then began crying and confessed. It is fairly common for a guilty person to get a lot of things “factually” wrong when initially confessing to murder. Especially 17 year olds who aren’t extremely intelligent.

          5. I’m familiar with the story. The number of confessions and length of time would not be entirely unique among false confession cases. But, this argument typically goes nowhere. Again, “common” experience and beliefs aren’t really as important as content and its comparison to known facts.

          6. I think the point of the OP is that Misskelley’s subsequent confessions are hard to explain if you think he’s innocent. Personally, this was the fact that made me start to doubt the WM3’s innocence. One false confession I can understand. But six over a period of nine months, three of those to your own lawyer? That didn’t make sense to me. And I find it very hard to believe that he was seeking reward money the whole time.

            Meh is right, in the end of the day it wasn’t about what his motives were, but about the content. All the judge had to do is determine if the confession was voluntary. It was up to the jury to decide if it was truthful. The defense showed them the falsehoods, the prosecution showed them the corroboration, and they made their decision. That decision survived 18 years of challenges in appeals court, and only was reversed when the WM3 agreed to plead guilty.

          7. Exactly. Supporters cannot agree on a legitimate reason for Miskelley to continue lying, and that’s only in the rare cases that they acknowledge the subsequent confessions. Cherry-picked evidence and a lack of consensus on an alternative are common fixtures in conspiracy theories.

          8. It could be supporters don’t always reach the same conclusion because they aren’t all using one brain. It is a foreign concept, I know. Take your time. 😉

      2. You’ll hang on that bible confession. lol
        Jessie Jr states that he saw Chris Byers thrown in the water, wiggling like a worm and that not only goes against the actual physical evidence, but also the ME’s testimony at trial. oops.

    1. The echo chamber known as the Blackboard went so far as to create a “27th March 2013 and forward” subform where many people fantasized at length over the claims of convicted rapists, but it’s died down to a trickle in the past few days.

  41. To all:

    Today is the first day of a Kickstarter campaign intended to raise money for post-production costs related to my documentary about the West Memphis Three. You can obtain more information here:

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1102312416/abomination-a-film-by-william-ramsey

    The film is currently in post-production. As 150 minutes of material has already been compiled, all that is needed are some additional funds to complete the project. Please help if you are able.
    If I can surpass the amount I’m looking for, I’d like to add an additional disc to the DVD case with visual information on the following provisional topics:

    Mara Leveritt and the Devil’s Knot: Grinding A Dull Axe;
    The Defense Rests: Obfuscation and Omissions in all Defense arguments;
    Fools on Parade: Hollywood and journalistic dupes, etc.

    I also just completed a small article about a data point many researchers have missed—the pentagram tattoo on the chest of Damien Echols. See here:

    occult911.wordpress.com

    Thank you!!

    1. Dear William Ramsey:

      You have a severe case of douchebaggery. This is your documentary? What a fucking joke. You, sir, are a fucking joke. Take your occult angle, and your “wooooo, evil Johnny Depp!” angle, and your shitty movie with clips ripped from Youtube, and other copyrighted material (which, by the way, you can’t just steal) and shove it up your stupid, shitty filmmaker ass.

      Good luck raising your $1,000. I actually hope you do, just so you can waste that money to see your “film” go nowhere. Fucker.

        1. Sorry, Jack-O, you’ve misinterpreted me once again. I’m dancing right now…

          …on the grave of William Ramsey’s dumb-ass “movie.”

  42. “I’m familiar with the story. The number of confessions and length of time would not be entirely unique among false confession cases. But, this argument typically goes nowhere. Again, “common” experience and beliefs aren’t really as important as content and its comparison to known facts.”

    Being hit by lightning seven times is not “entirely unique” either. But it is extremely rare.

    I look at motive, character, opportunity. Unfortunately, the WM3 had all three. Motive may be the weakest out of the three, but the teenage thrill kill is much better than any motive the defense could think up.

  43. Well, I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, folks, but after racking up an ASTOUNDING sum of $175, our dear friend William Ramsey has cancelled his Kickstarter campaign. I suppose that means no finishing funds for “Abomination,” the documentary…? What a crying shame. It is so important that we have esteemed reporters like Ramsey out there, ripping clips from the Paradise Lost series and then injecting his own THOROUGLY researched conclusions, like, for instance, how the murders were SATANICALLY MOTIVATED!!!!!!! Oh my God! Hey folks, did you know that Damien drew pentagrams in his diaries? Did you know that there was satanic graffiti found IN West Memphis? Did you know that occult expert Dale Griffis believes Satanism was the motivating factor behind the murders? William Ramsey does. He also believes that the occult has infiltrated Hollywood. Oh, and that Aleister Crowley and the New World Order, and the Illuminati (and the WM3?) caused 9/11…or something. Yeah. William Ramsey is King Douchebag.

    1. William, if you can get these the supporters and other assorted murder groupies this mad, you are doing something right. That is some first class troll ranting above! Lol.

      1. Mad? Are you kidding? I have been immensely entertained by William Ramsey’s interviews posted on Youtube. I am really digging his stance on the Aurora/Newtown shootings as being psychically connected to Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy. If you’re on this guy’s side about anything, Darren…you really might want to take a moment to reassess your positions.

    2. ” how the murders were SATANICALLY MOTIVATED!”

      I don’t know how William’s position deviates from this sites. But I agree with the site that the occult angle has nothing to do with this case.

      Damien may or may not have been dabbling with Satanism. It really doesn’t matter. Most psychotic sociopaths don’t dabble with Satanism.

      There is very little doubt that Damien, even to this day, has a serious interest in the occult. Do you deny this?

      1. Why are you jumping to Ramsey’s defense if you don’t know his position, Jack-O? Just because he’s on your “side” doesn’t mean you have to get his back. Do I think the WM3 are innocent? Yes. Do I think Hobbs is guilty? Probably, but not certainly. Do I defend the opinion of people who are now putting forth this latest theory, that Hobbs was off fucking Jacoby in the woods, along with a couple younger druggies, when the kids stumbled across their orgy, and then they had to kill them? NO FUCKING WAY. See? That wasn’t difficult.

        So you agree with the site that the occult angle has nothing to do with the case. Why then do you ask whether or not I deny that Damien has a serious interest in the occult? It either has to do with the case, or it doesn’t. Of course I don’t deny Damien’s interest in the occult. Millions of people have an interest in the occult, to one degree or another. But I’m glad we can agree (along with our kind host on this site) that these crimes weren’t occult motivated.

        However, William Ramsey cannot. In fact, he made AN ENTIRE 150 MINUTE DOCUMENTARY explicitly positing they ARE occult related. That’s because he believes in numerology/Satanism/Illuminati/New World Order controlling everything from 9/11, to world banks and politics, to THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT LINCOLN…need I go on? Don’t take my word for it. Youtube this nut-ball. He’s got plenty of interviews out there where he makes all his opinions abundantly clear.

  44. ” I am really digging his stance on the Aurora/Newtown shootings as being psychically connected to Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy”

    Why? What did he say? I believe the Aurora Co shooting was at a movie theater during the latest Batman movie.

    1. That’s correct, Jack-O, the Aurora shooting was at a movie theatre during the latest Batman movie. Now why do YOU think that was? William Ramsey seems to believe that Aurora and Newtown are connected, along with the shooting of Gaby Giffords, and perhaps 9/11 as well. All CIA mind control…false flags…Illuminati… New World Order…Jews…he and the ass-hat he’s talking to on Youtube (you can find the link yourself if it’s so important to you, it’s not hard to find) seem to think that because if you PAUSE The Dark Knight Rises at the right moment, you can see New Town, CT on a map, that this is proof that it’s all connected, and Hollywood is in on it all…he bases all of his “theories” on numerology, Jack-O. That sits alongside astrology and alchemy in the Bullshit Pseudo-Science section of academia. He’ll look at the date of those shootings, and then claim that Aleister Crowley prophesied this would happen 100 years ago because Aleister Crowley really likes certain numbers, as some numbers are more Satanic than others.

      Need I continue? Come on. William Ramsey is a douchebag. Just admit it. He doesn’t have to be your brother-in-arms just because you agree on the WM3…even if you clearly DISAGREE about their motives.

      1. Well if what you claim is true…that is definitely nuts.

        It sounds like you two have a history of not getting along too well.

      2. Aside from your ugly distortions, the reason I pulled the Kickstarter campaign was that I realized child killer sympathizers like you do not want differing opinions on the West Memphis Three from public analysis. The problem wasn’t that I came up short; in fact, I was promised enough money to surpass what I wanted. It was live less than 24 hours.

        To anyone who objectively reads the case files, occultism pervades the entire case. For heaven’s sake, I just posted a picture of Damien Echols taken right after the murders with a pentagram tattooed on his chest on my WordPress site. He tattooed himself with every occult insignia after his release. To deny it or avoid these facts is typical of the child killer sympathizers.

        I could care less for numerology. The problem is that some people do care, and they believe that certain numbers have specific meanings. I never said Crowley prophesied anything—he believed he was the Prophet of the New Aeon, or Age. That is why I titled the book Prophet of Evil.

        I merely report/write on occultism after bumping into its association to the events of 9/11.

        What I never anticipated when writing a book on this subject was the venomous, spiteful lies and distortions forwarded by vipers who support child killers. The lack of personal integrity really is an abomination.

        William Ramsey

        1. I’m sure Joey was overemphasizing, to an extent, some of your outlandish theories but that supposed photo of Damien’s “pentagram tattoo” does makes you look pretty insane. Do you have to wear special goggles to be able to see it? There’s literally nothing there but a shadow. And even then it wouldn’t mean much more that we didn’t know already. I drew satanic shit everywhere when I was kid and it was nothing more than trivial, it doesn’t prove anything.
          I don’t even want to touch on how occultism relates to 9/11. Shit.

          And what again was your excuse for why your kickstarter was pulled? It doesn’t even resemble an excuse, it’s just weird.

          I, for one, am not on Ramsey’s side.

          1. Detective Sudbury said he noticed the tattoo on May 7th, 1993:

            http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/desud.html

            If you look closely, the pentagram is easy to see on his chest.

            In the minds of many WM3 observers, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, has feathers, looks like a duck, it’s an elephant. Echols was and remains a committed occultist.

            I have reasons for pulling Kickstarter that I will never disclose publicly. The film is done and in distribution.

            Best,

            William Ramsey

          2. Regardless of whether Damien Echols had a pentagram tattooed on his chest, it is 100% not visible in that photo no matter how closely you look. You are seeing things.

            I have little doubt in Damien’s interest in the occult but I think it’s you who is seeing elephants.

        2. William, I haven’t read any of your works so I can’t comment on them. All I will say is that I respect you for putting your name out there as a published author. Self-published, but published none the less. I do hope someday a more balanced work on the Byers, Branch, Moore murder case will come out and change the minds of some people, and you seem to be the only one doing that. Good luck.

    1. The fact you think somehow this is indicative of Hobbs being guilty is bizarre.

      If anything it is an indication of how unstable young sociopaths are.

      Adult sociopaths are rarely serial killers or murderers. They are usually smart enough to realize, hey if I go around killing people I’m eventually going to get caught and locked up. But they just couldn’t give a crap less what any other human being feels. No sympathy or empathy.

  45. That buddy Lucas dude needs to get a fuckin life, trying to get famous on telling lies, no matter who did it one thing is for sure and that is that piece of shit should be hated by the families and the west Memphis 3, 1st he said Jesse confessed to him and had bloody shoes now he’s saying terry Hobbs and them did it, FUCK U BUDDY LUCAS u fuckin hick piece of shit. U won’t get your 15 mins of fame. Pisses me off that nobody else that I’ve seen see’s this piece of shit as a lier.

  46. I’m coming here after reading a couple of books and a recent documentary, so I’m not heavily into the research on the crime.
    I’ve been looking for the starting point from which investigators started down the road of ‘satanic ritual cult’ and eventually found their suspects.
    Everything I’ve seen and read says police thought ‘Well, Damien Echols finally killed somebody,’ so we started hearing about satanic involvement AFTER they decided who their suspect was.
    Would someone please post a summary of the evidence, be specific, point by point, as to what was found in the ditch, in the field nearby, not just what was found in the ditch under water.
    What satanic ritual evidence was found at the scene?
    The only thing I’ve ever heard referred to is the sexual abuse of one of the boys.

  47. I don’t know who killed those boys, I have my doubts that it was anything to do with the WM3 who did seem to be railroaded by the cops and prosecution with inept testimony by the prosecutions pathologist, and the ridiculous fears regarding satanism (rampant in christian america at the time) but one thing is certain. There are a lot of crazy motherfuckers posting here, with just as many crazy motherfucking theories. Terry Hobbs is almost certainly implicated, anyone who thinks he isn’t at least a possible suspect is insane or deluded.

  48. You really think the state would actually let 3 child murderers out??!! if they are acturally guilty then they would still be in prison its that simple the stae knew they had the wrong guys so they let them go but were not wanting to look stupid so they gave them the Alford Plea thats plain and simple

  49. I’m a recent convert to the ‘WM3 are guilty’ club. Like many, I feel ripped off after finding out that many facts were left out.

    PL2 actually starts with an on screen message (I’m paraphrasing here) saying something like ”Their convinctions were mainly based on a confession from Misskelly that lasted 12 hours.”

    That has not been proven. The facts show it’s much. mush less….but this doc still started the movie with it…and then went on to throw shit all over JM Byers.
    Oh…on topic now (sorry).

    This ‘new groundbreaking evidence’ is a pile of shit.

    One dude is dead. The other two ‘witnesses’ are convicted serial rapists. When a felon went on the stand to accuse Baldwin of ‘putting the kid’s balls in his mouth’ I didn’t believe it. I’m fair like that. He was a known liar and will say anything to lighten a sentence.

    The same goes here.

    What about those turtles?

    And for the millionth time blood was found at the crime scene in a luminol test. In a modern day court that can usually be used as evidence. Back then, it was new and inadmissible.

    Imagine a caveman trying to cover his tracks after eating someone elses dinosaur (yes, I know they didn’t co-exist).

    Caveman: Ug. Blood. Body. Ungamunga..water! Splashy, splashy…ug ug mmmmm. Ooog amunga! Blood go bye bye.

    Misskelly is a dumbass (not fully retarded though) and even he could work that one out.

    Here’s an idea. All that money going into finding what happened…why not look at…oh, I dunno. The ones convicted by two juries.

    It won’t happen as there is money to be made and a few celebs will look like total idiots when they say ”Yep. They got it right first time.”

    And my final rant (for now).

    Supporters claim that the WM3 were railroaded in a modern day ‘witch hunt’ with no evidence.

    Well, there is a darn sight more evidence pointing at the WM3 than Bojangles, Hobbs or Byers or whoever elses life they try to destroy.

    What we need is a documentary that gives us ALL of the facts known. If one day I get proved wrong and someone else is confirmed as the killer…I’ll hold my hands up.

    Like I said, I have an open mind but at the moment I do feel that the WM3 are guilty. Echols’ continued lying and con jobs (faith healer…purrleeeaaase).

    And all of his sick sycophantic followers (”OMG Damien is such an amazing healer”) should take up another hobby. Preferably a really dangerous one like base jumping or naked crocodile wrestling in quicksand.

    Rant over (I apologise…got a bit carried away).

    1. Do the math, what time Jessie got picked up, until the arrest warrants were signed.
      It’s like 11 hours, so..

  50. Finally some one with some logic and common sense put all the pieces together I was teetering after PD1, but was leaning toward their guilt. PD 2-3 where almost comedic in multiple theories. Let’s see in #1 the inference was Mark Byers had something to do with it. He was an easy target looked, dressed and sounded hickish and slow.

    Oops MB is ruled out AND he wants some WM3 fame so in #2 the go after this one that one, 3# the same thing.

    After 2 I KNEW they were guilty. I read all the real court records and documents. Damn! the American public is largely STUPID.

    Echol’s is back into the craft in Salem Mass. The dopey kid seems to want to live out a life of quiet remorse. Baldwin seems to have found god and forgave himself…good for him. Too bad they are still LEGALLY AND TECHNICALLY GUILTY CONVICTED CHILD KILLERS. Nothing is going to change that.

    90% of the WM3 suportadopes think they were exonerated…NO they took the easy way out like the cowards they are. The JUMPED at the chance to plead guilty and that is how they got out.

    Pleading guilty but not admitting it. Miskelly admitted it about 20 times for them though..LMAO.

    Like any of them cared about saving Damien from execution…that is funny. That tight nit crew that never talks anymore.

  51. This situation has gone of for so long basically no one will ever change their opinions because neither side are strong minded enough to consider all sides.
    What remain is the fact that whether or not the convicted did it or not, the case against them wasnt strong enough to convict, apart from in America anyway.

  52. All these comments are a bunch of bullshit. I bet half you or maybe 3 4ths are the same person or persons nervous as shit about the proceedings. Their is no way that Hobbs dude didn’t take part in it. He is burnt the fuck up. I’d beat his ass myself fuck In g woman and child abuser and killer. Its all the political b.s. that is protecting his ass. Just come out say we messed up snatch up hobbs by his hair drag him Into a cell and apologize to them boys it won’t be as bad as you think. Ok

  53. Looks like you people have your ideas about what happened. It just goes to show you when a crime is committed everybody has an opinion. If these boys were guilty, Hollywood or anybody else wouldn’t be able to get them out. I strongly believe that the boys are innocent. Other people need to be investigated. So unless you were in the courtroom or a family member which I’mthe boys aunt .

  54. So sorry for your loss, however in reading all the facts of this case
    It is apparent that the real killers have never
    Been brought to justice for the murders of 3
    Sweet innocent boys!
    I believe that terry Hobbs has more secrets but not
    Sure if he will ever tell them,
    Pam is searching for the truth of what happened
    To her child, as would any parent .
    Rip you 3 and may you help others find your killers

  55. The case against the WM3 had no concrete evidence. These men where convicted by bible back water jurors who never saw this case from a legal view. From the start it was a trial of religious beliefs vs outcast. As a Law student this case shows how the Bible and religion has no right in a court of law. This should have been a mistrial with all the screw ups by the WMPD and Judge Bennett. Terry Hobbs had many interviews with the Police that in any other state would have been seen as incriminating and cause for investigating him. I glad that the WM3 are free to live the life that was stolen from them by incompetent people of a small low class town. I am glad they ate profiting from their injustice and living a better life.

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  57. One thing I’m thing I’m sure of after reading about this case. I wouldn’t want to live in West Memphis if the rest of the world was nuked. That’s just me. From reading about this case almost everyone there seems very shady. Maybe it’s like that everywhere, though, and it just takes something like the Robin Hood Hills murders to bring it out in the open. The saddest thing is the lives of Christopher Byers, Steve Branch and Michael Moore seem to get lost in all the hoopla concerning the WM3, and that’s a shame. These little boys suffered before they died and they never even got to know the reason why.

    Everybody has a theory about the murders and I have mine. I believe the WM3 are guilty. This is just my theory and these are just my opinions. I believe Jessie Misskelley told a jangled-up version of the truth. Reading his confessions is enough to give you a four alarm migraine, but he holds firm on several points:

    1) It was Damien who called the boys over

    2) Damien grabbed one boy and the other little boys attacked Damien trying to help their friend

    3) Jessie and Jason grabbed a boy apiece and commenced whaling on them

    4) One of the boys got away and Jessie caught him and brought him back

    5) Damien appeared to be inserting his member into one of the boys

    6) Jason, who had a lockblade knife, cut one of the boys

    7) Damien hit one of the boys with a big stick on the head

    8) One of the boys were still alive when he was placed in the water.

    Many points have been made by WM3 supporters about Jessie being “retarded” and that his confessions were coerced. We know that Jessie made several confessions, even when his lawyers pleaded with him not to, so the coercion argument doesn’t hold up. I don’t think Jessie is dumb. In fact, I think Jessie thought he was quite smart. I believe he thought he could get the reward money that was being offered for information on the crime while downplaying his role in it and wound up having to reluctantly admit more and more of his culpability as time went on. I think Jessie’s memory was hampered by his consumption of Evan Williams the night of the murder and by his intentional desire to hide his full involvement in the crimes. Possibly his low IQ prevented him from expressing himself concisely and articulately as well, but his main points stayed consistent throughout his confessions. One thing that Jessie said really stuck with me. He said they had been shown a photograph of the three boys on their bikes at a “cult meeting” prior to the murders (see his confessions at http://wm3truth.com). This seemed really odd to me, right up until I read about Tim Cotten whom law enforcement gave little credence to. Tim Cotten stated that his cellmate, L. G. Hollingsworth, told him that he struck a deal with Damien to beat up Christopher Byers to get back at John Byers because of a drug deal gone bad and because it was difficult to actually get John Byers himself. This scenario rang true for me. It explains Jessie saying they had been shown a photo of the boys at the cult meeting, it explains L.G. Hollingsworth saying that he would be next to be arrested after he heard that Damien had been arrested (information on all these points also at website listed above). It explains why three teenagers would attack three small boys. There are numerous documented cases where teens have been hired as hitmen for relatively small amounts of money. Damien, being the leader and suspecting that since Christopher Byers was usually with playmates, was able to get devoted Jason and slow Jessie to go along with him in the plot. None of the three were boy scouts although Jason has been presented as nearly being so by WM3 reporters. I think the original plan was to beat up Chris Byers, hurt him real bad, and then things got way out hand, resulting in their murders. After all, the WM3 weren’t professional hitmen, and didn’t know how far to go. I think Damien had counted on the three young boys being together, hence recruiting the help of his buddies, but I don’t think they meant it to go as far as actual the actual murder of any of them and when they realized they had killed the boys threw them in the ditch to try to cover it up. I think this crime also had a sadistic, controlling aspect to it. Perhaps even a sexual one. There was no need to strip the boys to hogtie them. No need to castrate one to “hurt him real bad’. This went above and beyond the job description. These actions were the products of a sick and twisted mind. We should be worried.

    It is also my opinion that Domini Teer knows exactly what happened that night, as did L.G. Hollingsworth (killed in a car accident in 2001). I think there are people who helped the perpetrators cover this crime up which is why there was less evidence of the WM3 being perpetrators of this crime than there could have been. All in all, I believe that “the cult’, drugs, the desire for easy money in an economically depressed area and familial. twisted friendship and romantic ties had a lot to do with muddying the waters of this case just enough to create sufficient doubt to effect the eventual release of the WM3. It is a lot easier to wave the flags of “satanic panic” and “misfit scapegoats” than it is to fanatically defend and support three teens who thought they were going to make some easy pocket money and make a name for themselves as badass legends in West Memphis who were not to be toyed with. Who knows, maybe it would have resulted in a career in the drug business which was a job opportunity in that area a bit more profitable and glamorous than bag boy or fast food. Teenagers think this way which is why they get caught up in situations like this. This is mostly conjecture. I believe there are people still alive who know the truth, but they aren’t talking. Those who support the WM3 have a right to their opinions, I have a right to mine.

    1. I can see how the WM3 could be the suspects. I have read recently that Ryan Clark Mark Byers stepson has told numerous people that he knows his dad was involved with the murders. Which follow through on this case. Also Chris Byers mom died of unknown causes but have found drugs I her system. The person who was there at the time was Mark Byers.

    2. Now..try to imagine Terry Hobbs taking the stand and telling two juries that he saw/heard nothing in the 3 acre woods at 7 pm. If that wouldn’t be reasonable doubt, I don’t know what is, but Hobbs kept that valuable information to himself and although Gitchell knew to investigate Hobbs, he failed to do so, violating investigation 101 protocol.

      Hobbs supposedly sees a wet black bum the morning of the sixth, yet fails to report this valuable information also. You’d have to be stupid not to see rightb through that, when I asked Hobbs why he didn’t report that bum, his response: “nobody asked”.

      When I asked him how he heard/saw nothing in the 3 acre woods at 7 pm on the 5th, his response: “I didn’t know what I was lookin’ for.”

      He’s looking in a 3 acre woods he claims he knew nothing about at a time he didn’t know 3 boys were missing, this ain’t rocket science, folks.

  58. coming from Australia, when i first heard about the wm3, it supported my view that america locks up and throws away the key on millions of its citizens without a fair trial and dubious police investigations (america has over 2 million people in jail). I watched Rollins interview Echols at the New York State Library and saw it as a one sided promotion of his book and decided to look into it further. Since then i have trawled through copious amounts of information, watched the Paradise Lost docudrama, various websites pro and con, read most of the callahan documentation and read boards such as this one. Much of the media reporting is either just factual descriptions of the case and the findings of guilt, or hyped up self promoting vehicles from celebrities and t.v shows claiming outrage at innocent people being sent to prison. The truth lies somewhere in between I suspect.

    What is missing, for me, is in-depth questioning – by the media, as to how a young man can confess not once, not twice but multiple times to multiple people about his involvement in the murders. I’ve listened to the tapes and read the confession transcripts and Misskelly is prompted by police on only one or two occasions (eg the 9am and noon timeline). I can understand his confusion over the times as i cannot recall what i was doing at a particular time a month later, same too with alibi confusion.

    It is only recently that teens have committed murder here in Australia, until the past few years it was an almost unheard of thing. In the UK, there was a famous Bolger murder committed by young teens, so too there, it was unheard of, a very rare occurrence.

    The term thrill kill is distinctly American. The prevalence of violence seems distinctly American. Given the pervasive nature of the media I would have thought American culture would have spread throughout the western world but violent crime is stable in Australia. We have very few people incarcerated per capita. We don’t have guns or a gun culture (with the small exception of illegally smuggled guns). We have a very lenient court system and trial juveniles as juveniles not as adults. As such, people such as the WM3 would be out of jail within 10-15 years. We do not have the death penalty. Most crime occurs in the home, people you know. There has never been a shooting in a school.
    What i’m saying is that we feel safe and are safe by and large. The separation of powers means that the judiciary is removed from politics. There is an exception; the state of Western Australia has a large population of native Australians and their politicians have politicised “law and order” and introduced laws such as three strikes and you’re out. As a result, 80% of prisoners in W.A jails are poor, uneducated Native Australians even though they account of only 5% of the general population. The rest of Australia is against such discriminatory practices. In their favour though, they still have relatively short sentencing. The West is not dissimilar to the so-called southern states of the U.S by the sounds of it.

    This is my view from a distance.

  59. I hope they catch the murders of these three innocent young boys! They deserve Justice! May they rest in piece .

  60. It’s sad that with all the technology there is and knowing that those three teenagers didn’t commit the crime, nothing can be done, or not enough has been done to solve the problem. I feel as if everyone that has the power in their hands to make justice does nothing to make the parents feel at peace. Not even to bring their kids back to life, that is something we all know it’s impossible, but the peace of knowing the people that commited the crime received proper justice. I am sure the parents of the 3 children are not able to sleep while the actual murderers are still out there free of charges.

  61. What a tangled mess of a case ! and even now 20 years on mystery ensues and true justice for those children is unreachable. If Hobbs is indeed guilty,he has roamed the streets of a town, where he took the lives of 3 young boys in such a gruesome and cruel crime and shared a marital bed with the boys mother for 9 years after. Whilst all along I’m sure that poor women cried hopelessly into her pillow night after night. If that is true what a true evil bastard that man must be!

    After developing a true fascination with this case, I can see plausible scenarios involving both sides. The ‘spying kids on the gay tryst’ ,although from unreliable ‘witness’ affadavits does play out with a ring of truth as you read them. If Hobbs and jacoby were involved in a homosexual relationship outside of their marriages, that’s one thing but who knows how far they went experimenting. Maybe coaxing the teenage LG and (slow) Buddy into the woods with the lure of drugs and whiskey whilst secretly hoping to involve them in this liaison is possible. So too is getting caught kissing and fondling your gay lover by your 8 year old stepson who would just love to tell mummy about stepdad Terry , a sadistic man who uses the belt too much on him. That right there is motive! That is without the curious behaviour of the man after the disappearance. The knife?the uncharacteristic nature of washing the clothes? Was this due to abuse taking place and trying to hide DNA from stevies room ? The late call to police and keeping Pam in the dark till the last moment?
    So many questions. ?

    As for the WM3 …

    I have watched hours of footage of paradise lost, numerous documentaries, read and watched devils knot and more recently west of memphis. I have read al, of Damien’s Exhibit 500 psychiatric evaluations and observations, as well as the entire backlog of Callahan trial transcrips, evidence records, autopsy and crime scene reports and photos. From this it is my belief that the wm3 are the more likely culprits of this horrific crime. Although I do believe this crime had no true motive and it was just a wrong place, wrong time crime which snowballed out of control. Jessie Misskelleys numerous accounts do have truthful undertones to them underneath the inacuracies about times etc the personal details he alludes to that fateful evening May 5th 93′ really troubled me. He mentions how one of the boys was ‘still moving’ in the water and ‘wriggling like a worm’ . He says when questioned how the boys said ‘no, no or stop stop’ during the attack. These very personal and specific details which he relays back to, ring like he was there reliving those moments.

    Damien Echols!? What a character right?! I tell you if the police fit up was true they could not have chosen a better villain. And the press at the time and now must love him. T.V gold!

    Your on trial on a triple capital murder charge and your worried about how your new haircut looks? The narsicisst shines through. ‘The world will remember my name” -Echols (maybe but for all the wrong reasons mate)
    And yet while I buy that yes,these naive kids thought this was all some big game and a big police mistake and indeed the most exciting thing to happen to them in their miserable lives; I cannot comprehend why , when being sentenced to death or life imprisonment you are not jumping up and down screaming hysterically protesting your innocence for the court and world to hear ? Also when Jason is asked during paradise lost interview’ what would you like to say to the murdered children’s families? (Deafening silence) maybe ‘I didn’t kill your children ‘was the response he was looking for.
    The Paradise lost trilogy may have brought the diabolical police investigation to the fore and the kooky characters of Byers and the sly Hobbs to the worlds attention. But for some , myself included it showed the defendants in the cold hard light of day and did them no favours in terms of endearment to their personalities and emotionless state throughout. Then again it did get them out so hey ho!

    One reason I believe this was a unplanned murder is the eerie similarities it has to a crime committed only a few months before Robin Hood hills, in my home city of liverpool, England in the UK. The James Bulger case is the most horrific child murder the world has ever seen, not least because the two perpetrators were but 10 years of age themselves: the victim 3 years old. The case starts where toddler James gets separated from his mother in a shopping mall as she pays the cashier . CCTV of that moment shows the child being led away from the scene by an adolescent boy, followed closely by another young assailant. The mother can be heartbreakingly seen frantically running in and out if shops looking for her child. Upon leaving the mall the CCTV goes cold as city street CCTV was in its infancy in 1993. This poor child was dragged along by these boys for miles, playing with him one minute, offering sweets to him then the next punching, kicking, pulling his ears and pushing him into oncoming traffic or attempting to throw him into a small embankment. All this time many passersby tried to intervene as they saw the distressed crying child only to be told’ he’s our little brother’ or ‘he’s lost we are taking him to the police station( a stones throw over the road at this point) instead the boys climbed up with James on the railway line it’s at this point that the young kids prank takes on obscene cruely. Basically a case of ‘we got him here what ate we going to do with him. After the beatings the next phase of baying for blood begins. One boy the ‘ringleader’ begins throwing bricks at the toddlers head. As he gets up each time they use him as target practice taking turns to outdo each others cruelty. They look around on the tracks looking for things to inflict pain on the child. Glass, an iron bar, paint which they throw into his eyes and then the strange sexual violation, stripping the boys clothes,pulling of the penis and of inserting batteries into the child’s back passage. (Like west memphis sexual assault is indeterminable) After this horrific attack the boys place James’tiny body on the railway track hoping a train would come and cut him in two. Indeed that is what transpired. The unimaginable suffering of this baby boy has parallels with the despicable crime at west memphis with stevie, Christopher and Michael. The sadistic pattern of injuries ranging from first beatings, to spilt blood onto the more sadistic sexual mutilation on both chris Byers and James bulger definitely scream to me multiple attackers (which rules out bojangles) almost trying to outdo and shock one another in their range of the depravity. It it my firm belief that like the bulger case the spiralling adolescent ‘showing off’ nature between the perpetrators of jousting to and fro with one another in terms of the cruel attacks is definitely something that transpired in Robin Hood hills. I think this is a more likely scenario with Damien and Jason with Misskelley holding Michael as he states in every confession, rather than a Terry Hobbs, David jacoby scene. But I may be wrong. The bulger killers were caught but tried as the children they were and were released after only 8 years.
    I fear that Whatever transpired in west memphis that fateful spring night will never truly be known. However what cannot be forgotten in the celebrity, Hollywood movie spectacle that ensued following this awful crime is the pursuit of truth whether it is found or not.
    RIP the forever young Stevie, Christopher and Michael

    1. Kate I totally agree with you and have to say that the James Bilger case sprang to my mind too. I really do feel that there is a possibility of this being down to the WM3’s age, mental states and the fact that they would have done it as a group. Damien had been in and out of hospital prior to the event, Jessie was very influencable and made numerous confessions (of frightening detail), Jason said very little and most strikingly hangs his head at the end of Paradise Lost when his lawyer asks him whether he thought Damien had done it. That really swayed it for me! Unfortunately Paradise Lost doesn’t show everything, especially the points that led the jury to make their decision (like Damien blowing kisses to the victims’ families, or more technical detail on the knife found behind his house).

      One thing that stands out to me is that yes, the police investigators fast-tracked to arrest the WM3 and neglected to investigate many important leads if only to exclude them. However, I feel that the defence lawyers’ strategy of blaming and attacking the police investigators, pulling apart the experts, and pointing the finger at all and sundry without any real evidence was a BAD choice. They would have been better to stick with the innocent until proven guilty tactic by discrediting the evidence methodically and reminding to jurors of the importance of the phrase “beyond reasonable doubt” as this is the crux of this case. Onlookers have a lot of doubt, and unfortunately, so do the families as they are evidently desperately trying to find out who commited this terrible crime to this day.

      In my opinion the WM3 did it, even if there are many questions left unanswered.

  62. The only way the murders will be solved is if the murderer(s) confess. They are not going to go searching for another suspect. And why would anyone else confess to this crime after getting away with it for 21 years. That is of course if you believe the WM3 are innocent. If you do not believe that, then what are you concerned about? They may not be in prison anymore but they will be guilty forever by our legal systems standards unless someone else confesses to the crime. I don’t know how anyone outside of this can be so sure one way or the other. WE ALL are getting our information from movies and internet, whether those sources are sound and legitimate it’s still nothing compared to those actually involved. We have our voice and our opinion only in this fight nothing more. The real issue is that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE out there is GUILTY. And that’s horrifying, watching the first Paradise Lost doc, the opening scene of the crime scene video I about lost my shit, seeing those babies that way tore me up. I cannot imagine the pain those parents of those children deal with daily. And just because I’m allowed my opinion I will state I believe the WM3 to be innocent, all 3. I implore everyone to look up statistics of child kidnappings/murders, most of the time it’s a friend or family of the victim, or close neighbor. Could that include the WM3, possibly but also look up the statistical age of child rapists/kidnappers, primarily 16-18 year olds are not in that group. But just a statistic, probably means nothing.

    I will say, a few things that do puzzle me are:
    The severed penis, I understand the knife theory but I also understand how it could be animals postmortem.
    One man subduing the 3 boys, possible yes, still questionable though.

    1. One murderer has confessed, to his brother, his drug dealer and his ex girlfriend. oops. His name is Hobbs. Terry Hobbs.

  63. Reading through tons of these stories and old transcripts and different perspectives on the case it has made me come to my own theory that I have not seen anywhere else. Seems to me that if you read the interviews of Buddy and confessions of Jessie there are quite a few similarities. Certain details and certain times are the same but told in a different matter. So I think it’s possible that both Buddy & Jessie were involved (whether there were others or not I’m not sure yet) but they tried to collaborate a story where Jessie was to point to Damien and Jason. But he didn’t realize he was implicating himself as well and perhaps fudged on some of the times and details he and Buddy had discussed. Then when Buddy finally gave his statement, he turned on Jessie, claiming he had confessed to him and further pinned it on Damien, Jason, and Jessie to clear his own name. I’m sorry but the whole shoe story and all the time stuff really makes me believe this. Please read Jessie’s confessions from June 3rd and then Buddy’s statement back to back and you will see what I mean!

  64. I just wish they would find the people or person that did this. The families and more importantly the victims need and deserve closure.

  65. having looked at the crime scene photos/ and a few documents a few things occurred to me regarding the killer.
    – he is familiar with animal hunting.
    – he is familiar with knot tying.
    – he is a tall man. (length of shoe lace)
    – he was familiar with his victims, i believe he was an authority figure, most likely a de-facto step-father
    – he has a past history of violence, particularly child abusing, including one of three children prior to the murder
    – he would openly demoralise others
    – he would be known to have multiple distinct sides to his personality, e.g. charming vs violent
    – he would be unemployed
    – he would return to the scene of the crime
    – he would have trophies of the crime
    – he would have a bad relationship with his parents, particularly his father
    – he would use weapons to assault people, and would regularly carry weapons.
    – the site the bodies were found was definitely the crime scene.

    1. Terry Hobbs worked in his family slaughterhouse, he knew all about knots and hog tying. 3 teens could not have known the whereabouts of the parents, T Hobbs did, though.

  66. and then i see this..In regards to the night the children were missing, John Mark Byers states the following, “We were just kind of debating on if THEY HAD FELL IN THE BAYOU AND DROWNED, where would the bikes be and we couldn’t see how both bicycles could have run off in the bayou. And I KNEW MY SON (Christopher) WAS A REAL STRONG SWIMMER, and he, the only way he could have drowned would have been maybe trying to help one of the other kids that fell in.” In this statement, John Mark Byers correctly states the means by which Michael Moore and Stevie Branch die the night before they are found. He also implies that Christopher could not have drowned. Christopher was the only victim who did not have water in his lungs, signifying that he had died from his injuries.

    1. Byers times are accounted for. He was not in the 3 acre woods at 7 pm, but Hobbs was, he says so. In fact he tells Mitchell that he and Jacoby were there as early as 6:30 pm. oops.

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  68. I feel that both Terry Hobbs and David Jacoby know what happened. I think Jacoby wasn’t involved but is covering up for Terry. As I watched West of Memphis, you can feel the body language he had. Almost as if he was being controlled and confused as to what was going on. This could possibly be from trying to block out what happened. As I look at photos of Mark and Terry in a courtroom. They seem as if they know what happened. Just sitting there while Mark has his hands on his face and Terry just looks at him with almost a small smile on his face. They were both into drugs and i could see how it could have gotten out of hand. Now I’ve read some interviews and it said that the neighbor behind Terry’s house seen the boys playing around 630. Since there is no fence they were basically playing in both Terry’s yard and his. There is a lot that points to Terry considering no one was at the home except for Amanda and him.

    1. Jacoby was with Hobbs, but now he backs off, Hobbs even warning Jacoby in WoM to stick to their story. Now Jacoby says seeing the boys that day was a dream and he lied about being with Hobbs searching early before 9 pm. oops.

  69. In the film “West of Memphis”, David Jacoby clearly breaks down enough (when he is with John Douglas) that we see that he knows more than he is telling. He is trying to keep a story straight and it is obvious that he is covering for Terry Hobbs and he either knows what happened or was involved in what happened that day. They were likely getting stoned, playing some guitar, maybe having some whiskey. I don’t know about the gay stuff, but this affidavit probably has some truth in it – the kids saw them doing something, Hobbs was already mad about Stevie being late, one of the kids talked back, (probably Stevie) kicked Hobbs and Hobbs freaked. Once he killed the one kid by using too much force, the others couldn’t be left as witnesses.
    We’ll unfortunately never know unless Hobbs or Jacoby man up and fill in the blanks on what really happened that day.

  70. Clearly everyone is very passionate about this case but I’m disappointed that those who believe in the WM3’s guilt are so dismissive and disdainful of anyone who doesn’t share their opinion.

    This case was poorly investigated from the beginning. Three children were killed together and the PD does not investigate the parents? The parents should have been investigated first, before anyone else, and the homes should have been searched for any kind of evidence. The PD had tunnel vision from the start, focused on Damien Echols and drug Jason Baldwin and Jesse Miskelley along for the ride.

    I don’t know what happened the night the boys were killed. But this case did not warrant convictions, much less a death penalty conviction. No physical evidence tied Damien, Jason or Jesse to the crime. Everything was circumstantial. Witnesses recanted.

    In the 18 years the WM3 were behind bars, their stories never changed. None of them turned on each other. No fellow inmates came forward to say they heard a confession. How likely is that if the 3 were guilty?

    I believe the murders were committed by someone close to home and they were not premeditated. I think either one boy was struck out of anger and the other two were collateral damage.

    It’s a sad, sad case and I hope there will be justice for Stevie, Michael and Chris.

  71. I find all the latest theories utterly confusing. Sometimes it appears to be one huge smokescreen behind which someone is getting away with this terrible crime!! If there is a God, then justice will be served in time. There appears to be holes in ALL accounts, and a whole bunch of errors, mishaps, missed opportunities and carelessness that have combined to bring this horror story to this point. Where to next???

  72. I do agree with Lori. The Parents and those in the vicinity should have been questioned as soon as it was apparent that something was obviously very wrong. The wm3 were not arrested until a month after their deaths. I thought it was ‘standard practice’ to eliminate those closest to victims, before branching out. Easy to say after the fact, I hear!

  73. I’ve watched and read everything I could get my hands on and the truth is right in front of you, however I think I might be more intuitive to it because of my own personal life: Hobbs killed those kids, maybe or maybe not along with 3 others. It took some sophistication to dump those bodies and clean the evidence. More sophistication than three scared teenagers would have. Hobbs was gay, and a drug addict. It wasn’t just whiskey and weed, it was hard stuff. Speed if you ask me. He had a taste for young boys. He and another grown man were out in the woods getting some hanky panky from two trailer park teenagers. They caught the boys spying on them, which, of course they are spying on you. They’re children. They knew those children would rat them out to their families and they would lose their wives, their homes, their fake existences. So they killed them for it, and lied to themselves rather than just admitting the truth: I like men. That’s the truth how I see it from ALL sides….sorry guys. If you want me to add a little cherry on top: Hobbs was a victim himself, he beat his wife (fact), molested his daughter (fact), NO ONE that was involved in the search on the day of the murders can account for his whereabouts during the actual time of the murders (fact) AND he refuses to cooperate with all authorities on exonerating himself, (Polygraphs, dental impressions, etc.) He’s the perp, and he’s not the only one. But the WM3, nothing to do with it.

  74. Dear Author,

    I appreciated your blog, but I think it’s time to look deep and hard at the possibility that you are wrong. We all selectively retain and support viewpoints that support what we want to believe. But it’s important to stop, look and reconsider everything and often.

    Kindly,

    Tracy

    Memphis Three Oddities

    Boys murdered May 5, 1993 The Byers family has been part of the news in Arkansas since the morning of May 6, 1993, when the bodies of three 8-year-old boys—Steven Branch, Michael Moore, and Christopher Byers—were found in a drainage ditch in a wooded area near the West Memphis subdivision where they lived. 

    Autopsies revealed that two of the boys had drowned where they had been thrown, hog-tied, into the water. The third boy, Byers, had died of loss of blood suffered during the removal of his penis.

    Boys Charged

    Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, 17; Charles Jason Baldwin, 16; and Damien Wayne Echols, 18—were arrested and charged with the crimes. 

    Bizarre Twist!

    John Mark Myers – A man to be feared since he was a child – threatened to kill his parents, worked for a jeweler, knew how to use sharp instruments, and now his reign of terror and crime for on and on.. All signs point to him as the single murderer. Read following history with sources included.

    http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/the-strange-demise-of-melissa-byers/Content?oid=1886201

    On March 29, 1996 Melissa Byers died mysteriously. She was found naked and dead at her residence in Cherokee Village, AK. She and husband, John Mark Byers were estranged. Instead of calling police, he got his neighbor. When neighbor walked in, Byer’s son Ryan and his girlfriend were naked on the couch.

    Since moving to Cherokee Village in 1994, the couple had had frequent run-ins with police. In 1996 they appeared on television again, this time in a highly praised documentary about the West Memphis murder case that was shown on HBO

    A visual observation of Byers’ body revealed IV puncture marks on the top of her right and left foot, on the inside of her right wrist, and on the upper right thoracic area,

    Source: Arkansas Times Dec. 26, 1997 article by Mara Leveritt

    https://rttaveyinvestigations.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/the-west-memphis-three-and-the-step-father/

    Byers stated on the Maury Povich Show that he had an airtight alibi for the day when the murders were committed. However, Ricky Murray, Christopher Byers’ biological father, told investigators after he saw this show, that Byers’ statement contradicted what Byers had said at the funeral, that he was alone. Melissa Byers’ parents also knew that Byers was home that day at a time when he said he was not.

    This spate of legal problems caused local reporters to dig into Byers’ background. It was determined that when he was sixteen years old, his parents called the authorities for help because he was threatening them with a butcher knife. He had also worked for a jeweler who had $65,000 worth of jewelry go missing, although another couple who had worked there was sued in civil court for that and the owner received a civil judgement against them. This happened in Jonesboro

    This spate of legal problems caused local reporters to dig into Byers’ background. It was determined that when he was sixteen years old, his parents called the authorities for help because he was threatening them with a butcher knife. He had also worked for a jeweler who had $65,000 worth of jewelry go missing, although another couple who had worked there was sued in civil court for that and the owner received a civil judgement against them. This happened in Jonesboro

    Starting at least in 1996, John Mark Byers was having an affair and not bothering to hide it from his wife. Finally, in disgust, she decided to leave him and contacted her parents to say that she would be moving in with them during the evening hours of March 29, 1996. She never made it. John Mark Byers called an ambulance after he contacted his neighbor to determine that Melissa, supposedly after taking a nap, had died.

    John Marc Byers had all of his teeth removed in 1997 when he found out they were taking dental imprints! (there are several man sources confirming it for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three

    Following their convictions, Echols, Misskelley, and Baldwin submitted imprints of their teeth. These were compared to the alleged bite marks on Stevie Branch’s forehead that had not been mentioned in the original autopsy or trial. No matches were found.[42] John Mark Byers had his teeth removed in 1997, after the first trial but before an imprint could be made. His stated reasons for the removal are apparently contradictory. He has claimed both that the seizure medication he was taking caused periodontal disease, and that he planned the removal because of other kinds of dental problems which had troubled him for years.[43]
    After an expert examined autopsy photos and noted what he thought might be the imprint of a belt buckle on Byers’ corpse, the elder Byers revealed to the police that he had spanked his stepson shortly before the boy disappeared.[9]

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